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Please go back to the old Armour numbering system

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Please go back to the old Armour numbering system

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
04.12.2014 , 04:02 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I guess you've resorted to petty sniping to make up for a lack of a compelling point.
Hey. If you can't adapt to using I level like the game was designed...not my problem.
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
04.12.2014 , 04:07 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by RandomXChance View Post
All of the references to this new system being confusing for leveling is absurd.

When you are leveling and greens or blue drops do you look at the item # (whatever system is being used ) and make a decision based on that? Of course not. Would you put on a green level 32 in place for your blue level 29 that has better stats? Of course not. When leveling you burn through gear and only look to see if it is an improvement to your stats, not if it has a higher level rating. It is the stats that matter, not some rating/level. If it is modable pieces you have always looked to see if the individual parts will be an upgrade. That has not changed either.

For end game the new system is superior. The item level was meaningless since all it said was the mod part that was the highest number in that piece. The new system gives a more complete picture of the overall power of that piece of gear.
I don't disagree with the points you're making, but I feel you're overlooking something.

When using moddable gear, you used to be able open your character sheet and at a glance immediately know if your gear were up-to-date (while leveling that is). That is what is missing now.

Of course, when gear drops, you compare the stats, not the level. Of course when you reach end-game, level no longer matters. But while leveling, can you really disagree with the convenience of knowing when your gear is out of date with a quick glance at your character sheet? (This is particularly helpful if you have more that one toon your leveling, and you don't remember the last time you changed your gear.)

Sure, we're all going to eventually get used to seeing rating in gear. It's just a shame that a number that was useful without doing any comparison has now become a number that is only meaningful when a) comparing it to other gear, b) if the number increments are "memorized", or c) if you take the time to ctrl-right-click on the mod to see the actual level of the mod.

Styxx's Avatar


Styxx
04.12.2014 , 04:11 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Halinalle View Post
I think this new system will just give people more reasons to kick other people from leveling FPs for "being undergeared". Remember that this already happens in level 55 tactical FPs.
As I said before, or in other thread, I do think this is the foundation for gear rating requirements for content - either hard lock, or informative.

This being said, leveling, at least, the new system is easier - makes re-slotting in armor VERY fast and intuitive, under max lvl, anyway. My lowbie commando is very happy.
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RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
04.12.2014 , 05:19 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I don't disagree with the points you're making, but I feel you're overlooking something.

When using moddable gear, you used to be able open your character sheet and at a glance immediately know if your gear were up-to-date (while leveling that is). That is what is missing now.

Of course, when gear drops, you compare the stats, not the level. Of course when you reach end-game, level no longer matters. But while leveling, can you really disagree with the convenience of knowing when your gear is out of date with a quick glance at your character sheet? (This is particularly helpful if you have more that one toon your leveling, and you don't remember the last time you changed your gear.)

Sure, we're all going to eventually get used to seeing rating in gear. It's just a shame that a number that was useful without doing any comparison has now become a number that is only meaningful when a) comparing it to other gear, b) if the number increments are "memorized", or c) if you take the time to ctrl-right-click on the mod to see the actual level of the mod.
Yeah, I agree on that. I feel the benefit of the new system for end game compensates for that once people get used to the numbers.
Under the old system your item level at end game was solely based on the highest level mod you had in the gear. So a chest piece with a 78 armoring and the rest 58's would be level 78. Not really accurate. With the rating system it weighs each part and gives a rating based on the whole. Confusing in the short run, but really a better gauge of an items true power in the end.

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
04.12.2014 , 05:19 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Styxx View Post
Only because we are used to an older one - in my opinion better and simpler. But it`s not the end of the world, I`d think.
Where did I ( or anyone else ) even remotely suggested this is the end of the world ?

The gear rating is a poor system for leveling. That's my complaint. I'd like to have the option of having a simple and effective system to visualize my gear "quality" with just a glance. A system that already exists, not that I'm asking to develop an entirely new thing.

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
04.12.2014 , 05:23 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by NoFishing View Post
Bad idea, because greens and purples of the same item level are vastly different.
Not really matters. Not while leveling. You will do okay with either 24 greens or blues or purples for lowbie mando raiders. What matters is them being around that level. Yes, the gear rating covers the subtlety of the different color thing which is nice, but in truth, is simply offering redundant information we already have, using more numbers, being more "verbose".

The gear rating numbers, being completely arbitrary (from our point of view as players ofc) they need to be related to something with meaning. For end game that's easy. You have like what , five different gear ratings (arkanian, underworld, kell dragon, dread forge, dread master) ? That's it.

But one thing is leveling and another completely different is end game.

How many gear ratings do you have between 10 and 50 ? And with its arbitrary scale that relates to absolutely nothing, then it makes for an awful system, because in order to make sense of them, you relate them to a level. Is adding a layer of needless complication with no real benefits.

In end game, the difficulty does not reside with the level of the content, ofc. While leveling, the difficulty lies with the level. You open up your galaxy map and for every planet you see a level, you see character bar and you your level. Having gear matching that makes for an really obvious, simple, fast and effective way to assess how well prepared are for the content. It cannot be better than that.

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
04.12.2014 , 05:54 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
Not really matters. Not while leveling. You will do okay with either 24 greens or blues or purples for lowbie mando raiders. What matters is them being around that level. Yes, the gear rating covers the subtlety of the different color thing which is nice, but in truth, is simply offering redundant information we already have, using more numbers, being more "verbose".

The gear rating numbers, being completely arbitrary (from our point of view as players ofc) they need to be related to something with meaning. For end game that's easy. You have like what , five different gear ratings (arkanian, underworld, kell dragon, dread forge, dread master) ? That's it.

But one thing is leveling and another completely different is end game.

How many gear ratings do you have between 10 and 50 ? And with its arbitrary scale that relates to absolutely nothing, then it makes for an awful system, because in order to make sense of them, you relate them to a level. Is adding a layer of needless complication with no real benefits.

In end game, the difficulty does not reside with the level of the content, ofc. While leveling, the difficulty lies with the level. You open up your galaxy map and for every planet you see a level, you see character bar and you your level. Having gear matching that makes for an really obvious, simple, fast and effective way to assess how well prepared are for the content. It cannot be better than that.
Actually the new system relates gear to stats and power levels much more clearly than the old system. And the rating system isn't arbitrary, it is just another scale like player level, except it can keep growing at level cap as gear increases in stat values.

Under the old system, a full armor set filled with green mods with '24' on them is substantially less powerful than a set filled with blue mods with '24' on them which is substantially less powerful than a set filled with purple mods with '24' on them.

With rating, the quality / color becomes irrelevant. A gear set with an average rating of 100 using green mods is equal in stat budget and power to a gear set with an average rating of 100 using blue mods.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
04.12.2014 , 05:58 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
Hey. If you can't adapt to using I level like the game was designed...not my problem.
Like I said. You actually can't come up with a compelling argument, so you fall back on the old faithful of insults and snide comments. Too bad. You used to be able to debate.

Drudenfusz's Avatar


Drudenfusz
04.12.2014 , 06:55 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
I'd like to have both visible.
This!

The old one was good for and easy to use when levelling up, the new one is good to keep track at level cap. so either way has a drawback, and having both at teh same time would be useful for everyone.

If BioWare doesn't want to make that both are shown at the same time, how about letting players decide taht in their own preferences themselves?
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RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
04.12.2014 , 08:05 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
Actually the new system relates gear to stats and power levels much more clearly than the old system. And the rating system isn't arbitrary, it is just another scale like player level, except it can keep growing at level cap as gear increases in stat values.

Under the old system, a full armor set filled with green mods with '24' on them is substantially less powerful than a set filled with blue mods with '24' on them which is substantially less powerful than a set filled with purple mods with '24' on them.

With rating, the quality / color becomes irrelevant. A gear set with an average rating of 100 using green mods is equal in stat budget and power to a gear set with an average rating of 100 using blue mods.
Extremely well stated. The new system is a bit less intuitive, but much more accurate. As you stated, a level 24 green and a level 24 purple are not equal as the old system would show.