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Will the new ships make GSF even more casual/noob unfriendly ?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Will the new ships make GSF even more casual/noob unfriendly ?

General_Brass's Avatar


General_Brass
04.08.2014 , 01:24 PM | #1
I have been seeing many people describe the new ships as "The big meh", but when I look at them I see something other possibilities and quite likely an intensification of the existing problems the game has. For people that are queuing as coordinated teams these things take their advantage to the next level, this also means that people queuing solo or are just new will be curbstomped even more than before.

Lets look at some configurations for premades currently.

A) 3 scouts in a wolfpack with either another ship as diversity.
Either of the new ships slips into this and makes the combination even more OP. They now have a speedy repair base/ force multiplier that travels with them.

B) Bomber + scout/strikefighter for satellite defense
Now you have two ships that can mutually self heal themselves and anyone that rushes into their aid. Good luck to the pug trying to pry them off that satellite.

These are just obvious examples that come to mind from the abilities the new ships have. I am certain there is more depth to what can be done. The problem is even the completely obvious things seem OP. From a game theory standpoint for a person queuing solo they have to be willing to make very altruistic choices and then hope for the very unlikely chance that they will be able to leverage those choices by organizing a group in the ops chat before launch.

I look at the balance shift and I have to think that the devs are clueless about just how bad an experience GSF is for most of the people who try it. As was pointed out in another thread, you shouldn't have situations where you have 8v8 wargames and one side has all 4 and 5 ship pilots and the other has nothing but 2 ship rookies. Now the new ships look like they will be the nail in the coffin for what were the infrequent upset wins you would have because the one side had a very good pilot and had some rookies who would actually read ops chat.

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
04.08.2014 , 01:57 PM | #2
None of the support abilities are especially powerful outside Repair Drones, all of these abilities require players to ball up (a terrible idea, in case you've had your head under a rock for the entirety of your gaming career), none of the other components are especially powerful, and coordinated players generally win anyway.

Combat Command is fairly niche (you can get plenty of accuracy on your own through upgrades and crew members, making evasive enemies only a niche concern, and power regen is laughably useless), Tensor Field is weak (too little buff for too much cooldown, even at t5), and Remote Slicing is a poor man's EMP Field (inferior disable time, useless t4 upgrades compared to EMP Field's amazing ones, and a frankly laughable amount of damage -- less than a long range RFL shot).

Combat Command and Tensor Field have a radius of 5 km fully upgraded, which leaves you vulnerable to things like ion aoe and makes it easy for switch targets. You can boost away after dropping the buff, but you have a sucky engine because you're not playing a good scout or strike. Remote Slicing is better off here, being a debuff instead of a buff, but it sucks, lol.

Offensively, the Clarion/Imperium plays like a Pike/Quell with only one missile slot (and poor choices for that slot). Defensively, it can be tougher than a bomber... but without the area denial or raw power of a minelayer. The Spearpoint/Bloodmark simply can't play defensively, and what it does offensively, it does worse than a Novadive/Blackbolt (again, largely because of terrible missile options). Both ships lack the engine abilities to hold their own in a dogfight (except possibly Power Dive, which I haven't tried out), but even if they didn't, their other flaws would hold them back.

Most of these downsides can be negated, at least in part, by voice communication... but a group that's coordinated enough to get on vent or what have you is probably going to win against disorganized pugs anyway.

Neither ship can keep up with allied dogfighters because neither has access to barrel roll, booster recharge, or even a thruster component.

The package deal of a support ship buffing allies and debuffing opponents is simply weaker than if that same pilot flew a ship that was good at killing enemies, even in a group setting.
Space Ace, Founder, and Beater
Formerly of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Leiryat's Avatar


Leiryat
04.08.2014 , 01:59 PM | #3
Yes, the new ships are supporters, guess what that means?
No one bothers to fly them, exactly! Not even in TDM, where a mobile repair platform in the middle of your swarm could be priceless.
I've just spent 3 hours in GSF on VC, saw the new map three times and the new ships not even once - just the usual bomber/gunship spam.

/edit:
also, what Armondd said.
Hogest - Jekay
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. The brew of coffee provides the thoughts speed. The desk acquires stains. The stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion...

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
04.08.2014 , 02:00 PM | #4
You hit the nail on the head ... hopefully it's not the nail in the coffin.

The game didn't need more ships to amplify premade advantage--it needs easy-to-build-and-fly ships that provide moderate-to-high level of power to individual PUG pilots, without requiring excessive building or flying skill. In other words, training wheels ships that seem overpowered at first, but can be outmatched by ace builds/piloting.

Right now, the only ships that really fit this are T2 Scouts and maybe T1 and T2 Strikes.

T1 Scouts very powerful when flown well, but are too vulnerable to start new pilots on.

Gunships, especially after the Barrel Roll nerf, require a lot of skill to survive in.

Bombers grant way too much power for too low a skill requirement.

The two new command variants are basically traps for newbies. They are very hard to build competently, and even harder to play effectively. As you say, the only ones who will be able to leverage them are premades who already have no problem winning the majority of their matches.

What the game really needs are more simple starter craft--with high in-built power, but a low capacity for ace exploitation. Maybe that was the intention for Bombers, and it just didn't work out as planned.
Shayd/Callem - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
04.08.2014 , 02:53 PM | #5
The ships are flat out practically useless.

Any premade that would benefit from support ship in their ranks would benefit more from anything else, from gunship support through a dogfighter or missile ship to a gosh darn bomber.

Any PUG will benefit a skilled pilot taking actual battleship way more than the same pilot trying to do good with a support.

I, a NovaDive pilot, took my Spearpoint because it looks amazing, and was really underwhelmed. Most of support I did was when I charged into a raging battle, popped my Shield Projector and Tensor Field and spent entirety trying to lock Thermite on someone. I don't even know if my buffs hit anyone because we have no damn idea about allies' distances.

It is not a good ship. Not an useful ship. But it looks sweet and so it became my chill ship for matches against newbie opposition. I will love it and pet it and hug it, maybe I will develop some way to make it useful.

In my opinion, devs wasted their best ship models on the worst and the least used ships since times of Comeeeeet-Brrrreeeeakeeeer.

pzarr's Avatar


pzarr
04.08.2014 , 05:01 PM | #6
The issue imo is (if you're flying imperial) the quell or Sting are simply too superior compared to the new ships(on paper at least). non-BLC blasters on a scout pale in comparison when measured against the sting's arsenal, and most players (understandably) lean towards offensive measures, and we got 'healing ships' where I think people wanted better offensive coordination. For the new scout you have to sacrifice your strongest personal defense for one of the new abilities, and both new additions lag behind in mobility because of not having barrel roll, so you can't even keep up with your allies zipping around the map.

I am curious about the remote slicing ability on the SF though. if the range isn't terrible that could be interesting.

Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
04.08.2014 , 06:56 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by pzarr View Post
The issue imo is (if you're flying imperial) the quell or Sting are simply too superior compared to the new ships(on paper at least). non-BLC blasters on a scout pale in comparison when measured against the sting's arsenal, and most players (understandably) lean towards offensive measures, and we got 'healing ships' where I think people wanted better offensive coordination. For the new scout you have to sacrifice your strongest personal defense for one of the new abilities, and both new additions lag behind in mobility because of not having barrel roll, so you can't even keep up with your allies zipping around the map.

I am curious about the remote slicing ability on the SF though. if the range isn't terrible that could be interesting.
It is rubbish.. Its main ability is to disable the system ability of your target. In most ships this will lock out their alternate guns or missiles, or with scouts they cant use TT or Booster regen. The shield component is useless. It removes 40 shield power per second. I though this would be helpful against bombers, over the 12 seconds it runs you will remove 540 shield power. Due to the nature of the drain, it doesn't count as damage, so the native shield regen of 90 on a bomber will override this ability completely, resulting in a net loss of 0 shields. You are better off using the co-pilot energy re-gen negate ability.

The only actual saving grace of the ability is the engine disable at the highest tier. The 4th tier is substandard and not worth the 10k req it requires as a 20 engine or shield power reduction is minuscule. I guess the idea is to combine it with either the emp missiles or the ion missiles, but to be honest, i have tried this combination out and its unimpressive so far. Ill see how it comes along as i master different components, but its not looking very good at this stage.

My main gripe is that we were aware of these potential problems but bioware did nothing to help us test it while they were in the development phase. Now as normal, we have to suffer through it, while trying to convince bioware devs there is a problem. You have seen how long it has taken to get action on the ion railgun.....
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

DeputyConvict's Avatar


DeputyConvict
04.08.2014 , 07:10 PM | #8
I have been flying new scout all day. Tier 2 upgrades. It is so useful with tensor field in domination, and in death match I got 17 kills 4 assist 70k dmg 2 deaths. I think it tons of fun to fly, and I am sure I wiil have just as much fun, and do just as well on new striker. cleary you have not been hit with new slicing ability either....IT SUCKS to be on the receiving end of a maxed out slicer!

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
04.08.2014 , 07:15 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by DeputyConvict View Post
cleary you have not been hit with new slicing ability either....IT SUCKS to be on the receiving end of a maxed out slicer!
Nine seconds of system lockout sucks... but I'll take it over EMP field's 15 seconds any day.
Space Ace, Founder, and Beater
Formerly of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

TheRampage's Avatar


TheRampage
04.08.2014 , 07:15 PM | #10
Glad it is working for you, testing 2 new ships today and only thing I noticed is that I die rather fast

this buffs in theory are nice, but in reallity? I have no idea if I'm buffing my team, dunno if I'm in range, anything....

and only place I can see them doing sth nice is TDM, but again, you don't have any means of escaping fast. Went on satelite with repair against repair bomber. Well, he had seeker missles, I had nothing, didn't end well.
Raph‚el - Vanguard
Nasargiel - Commando
Cŗstiel - Mercenary