Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Tier 2 Scout: A loadout that retains "scout" essence in post 2.7

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Tier 2 Scout: A loadout that retains "scout" essence in post 2.7

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
04.08.2014 , 11:52 AM | #1
The Problem:

2.7 hit everyone hard for mobility - all engine abilities had their cooldowns increased and their cost increased at the same time. Scouts are still king of mobility, and in this sense even more powerful than before albeit with a caviot. We are more susceptible to running out of engine power / abilities, missiles have gone from nuisance to threat, and ion rails are a death sentence. Overall our suitability is down, and a playstyle change is required IMO.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Result of 2.7:
  • Missiles are harder to avoid (your missile breaks take longer to regen, in some cases twice as long)

  • Mobility and speed have been reduced across the board (the more agile classes feeling it less)

  • Barrel Roll is not "as" viable as a travel power (I use it still at the beginning of a match but otherwise saved for missiles)

  • Engine power is more valuable, as a scout get caught without this and your mince meat (unless your close enough to LOS something)

  • Mobility and speed is more important now than ever before. It went from a cool benefit to a major factor with the release of 2.7.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old Build and Why it No Longer Works:

When the patch first went live I was using this:
Spoiler

Playing with this build was very dangerous in the new meta, before I relied heavily on Barrel Roll as a offensive / defensive tool to close or run, as well as a missile break. With the changes using it as a travel power is dangerous, IMO it must be saved for missiles except in extreme cases. Frequently my engine power was completely drained after short engagements. Ion rail became particularly devastating as well, since the cost of using Barrel Roll was increased.

The result of all this was me running out of engine power or abilities and catching a missile in the teeth, much too frequently for my liking.

Luckily I had a backup plan, which after a couple more rounds has showed a lot of promise:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Build, New Tactics

New Build - Nickname: Cat-Herder

Spoiler

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whats Changed
  • Ditched most turning for speed (I waffle a bit on the engine ability: speed or turn, depending on how I want it to fly)

  • Ditched blaster overcharge for booster overcharge

  • Swapped bypass for concentrated fire (yes someone still used bypass hehe)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why, and How Does it Compare?

Result: (Here is a post 2.7 match from 4/10/2014 with the new build)
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/...ps591e9f00.jpg

A ship that trades some of its damage for a lot of mobility. I find that in the post 2.7 world the old scout that specs for pure damage is going to be a 1 hit wonder due to power and ability constraints. Concentrated fire still yields a respectable damage boost and is a decent replacement for blaster overcharge (well not really but it works)

This build feels very "scout" to me, whereas my old build felt like a slug (unable to effectively chase or evade)

Stacking regen on the engine power makes it passively replenish quickly, and even faster with engine power selected. The actual booster ability is wonderful as well, allows you to basically refill most if not all of your engine power on demand.

The way I like to play scout is the "close" game 0-1000, this allows me to dogfight in close but still have the engine power to run or LOS if I have to. This build is a node taker, an interceptor, and a harasser. Losing some of the damage does suck, especially against gunships and strikes (who blaster overcharge melted before) - But the mobility gained is very useful offensively, putting you in the position to do the damage or to slink away when need be.

Ive tried working blaster overcharge back in but im honestly addicted now to the mobility of this little thing, give it a try (especially if you like to play close as well)
Ahazi Server Refugee (Beta - Shutdown) RIP TIE & Twin Ion
[Circle of Emnity] - Pincer - Ocula Pilot - The Bastion
New to GSF? Look Here!. // And Here!

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
04.08.2014 , 12:57 PM | #2
This is essentially the build I've been running since early access, though your version has some components that don't synergize with the rest quite as well as they could..

Barrel roll should be retro thrusters. You don't need barrel roll with booster recharge. You just don't. Outside of its mobility powers, barrel roll is actually pretty bad. Being forced to choose between eating a missile and resetting the fight is awful, especially in domination where leaving the node can mean the other guys cap it. The question you're going to ask is "but how do you chase people with barrel roll?" Simple -- just boost after them. T5 booster recharge gives a lot of engine power. I chase gunships with boost alone, and there's no problem -- and while I haven't played a match since the patch landed, I'm pretty sure that's just going to get even easier now.

Retro with clusters is great because the lock-on time is so short that you can launch the missiles in the middle of a joust after retroing, and this combo boosts clusters to second best "normal" secondary weapon in the game (after rocket pods, which have superior burst power but can't do much in an actual dogfight). Retros also let you slip behind the guy chasing you, and likewise if the guy you're chasing tries to retro you can just retro yourself and keep him in your sights. It's really an underutilized ability that I think will become more popular post-patch.

Retros have the turning upgrade because you don't often need more speed but you always need more turning power around a satellite or asteroid, or when your target is within 2 km (which should be most of the time).

Turbo reactor should be large reactor, because you pop too easily otherwise. Turbo and regen reactors are just flat out mathematically inferior to large reactors unless you somehow survive for something like 20 seconds (in ideal circumstances, which never happen). They're good on other ships, but only because those other ships have synergy in the form of directional and/or quick-charge shields. T2 scouts don't use those, so they should always use large.

Regen thrusters should be turning thrusters for the same reason you should drop barrel roll.

Damage capacitor isn't a bad choice, but I've been toying with range capacitor since the devs confirmed that damage is a linear dropoff with range. It's a slight damage loss (I think you end up gaining 9% damage instead of 10%), but the increased range is handy for when people start to run and gives you more breathing room when dealing with bombers. Further, range capacitor is the only way for scouts to deal with seeker mines.

Pub side companions are Qyzen (copilot), Nadia, filler, and Yuun. This trades Spare Ammo for Improved Kill Zone, which I generally find to be superior. Engineering crew can be pretty much whoever, as long as it's not someone with Silent Running (because you'll almost never be more than 15 km away from your target, so dampening should never come into play).
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
04.08.2014 , 02:02 PM | #3
Since I had to give up blaster overcharge I am low on damage, hence I feel like I need it for the cap and also in the crew ability. As for the turning I dont really miss it much, but this is interchangeable IMO, I took the speed since the theory behind this build is speed at the sacrifice of weapons.

I could definitely go retro, especially since now I rarely use barrel roll as a travel power, im generally saving it for a missile break. In that same vein of though I might try power dive (wait does the t2 even get that?)

Clusters I get since my playstyle is close and nothing else can give me that short bursty window that I need to get shots off.

All in all my deaths remain similar <5 but my kills are suffering a bit. Havent had a 20+ round in any of the 10 matches I played today. If I walk away with a win and 10+ kills <5 deaths im still happy. Definitely feeling the lack of damage, but booster overcharge IMO is a must now if you want to live longer than a few minutes.
Ahazi Server Refugee (Beta - Shutdown) RIP TIE & Twin Ion
[Circle of Emnity] - Pincer - Ocula Pilot - The Bastion
New to GSF? Look Here!. // And Here!

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
04.08.2014 , 02:10 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DamascusAdontise View Post
Since I had to give up blaster overcharge I am low on damage, hence I feel like I need it for the cap and also in the crew ability. As for the turning I dont really miss it much, but this is interchangeable IMO, I took the speed since the theory behind this build is speed at the sacrifice of weapons.
Range capacitor increases range by 10%. Since damage scales linearly, at the same range (say, 1800 meters), you get about +9% damage. I'll take +9% damage +400m range over +10% damage any day.

I've landed hundreds of kills because I was able to out-turn my opponent around a satellite or asteroid, or because I was able to line up a shot with less of a tracking penalty, or because I was able to make tighter turns to follow his path (meaning I got closer, meaning I did more damage). Turning rate is extremely valuable.

Don't sacrifice your weapons for speed -- you already have nearly unmatched speed thanks to booster recharge. Take both speed and weapons.

Quote:
I could definitely go retro, especially since now I rarely use barrel roll as a travel power, im generally saving it for a missile break. In that same vein of though I might try power dive (wait does the t2 even get that?)
T2 gets power dive, but you can't kill things with power dive. You can definitely kill things with retro thrusters.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
04.08.2014 , 02:35 PM | #5
Firstly, I don't fly T2 scout but a T1, so apologies if you'd get offended by me giving my solutions in your T2 thread.

Now, to the point.
As T1 scout I am basically mostly gunship hunter, which made the impact of BR nerf maybe even bigger than on you T2 guys. However, my solution:

Power Dive.
+ cheap missile breaker on fast CD
+ doesn't "reset" the fight half as much as BR did
+ the component looks beautiful (can't advertise thing with more cons than pros, can I now?)
- no mobility
- really really tricky and requires to be very careful about your surroundings
- doesn't end the fight if one needs to escape

Speed on everything. - T3 Power Dive upgrade and Speed thrusters.
+ mobility
- no dogfighting, mostly single-pass sweeps, because of very limited turning rates, the speed makes tight maneuvers even worse

Engine Power Converter. You guys don't have this option which disqualifies my "solution" to inspire your solutions though.
+ booster at will
+ good capacity for combat
- very slow regen

Otherwise, as I was used to. Light lasers, Targetting Telemetry, Rocket Pods, CF.

Now, your best offense with your new build is the bare power of BLC which you can't empower with your systems, only with CF, and your Clusters. Looking on my thingies, I have a feeling that I actually have more firepower than you. TT with CF are insane critical hitters when activated together, not to mention when pods are spammed alongside lasers. Maybe RFL with its higher RoF would abuse that even more, and in ranges similar to BLC.
Of course, your mobility would probably be higher because the shield, even though good, isn't as good boost refill as the engine recharge, and that's before mentioning BR. You are still better dogfighter, but you also sacrificed your turn rate, so the difference will not be as huge as it used to be. And in sweeps on unsuspecting enemy, my build would probably be better because it can spray enemy with full power from around 4k, without warning beeping of missile lock.
Also, you now have two 20s CD lock breakers, don't you? It would definitely be debatable if it is better than my single 10s one. (which is a horrible move in all other ways though, so you would probably win that debate )

If I would want to mention how I'd tweak your build, I would keep turn rate at least on the engine T3 upgrade, if not on both engine and thrusters. From my experience the Engine Recharge is so powerful that I just didn't need other speed or regen thingies. If you'd miss regen, put Regen thrusters back on. With BR it is unlikely that you would need speed. But you are a T2 scout which is a dogfighter, THE dogfighter! If you put all your turn rate away, you will get outmaneuvered by damn fighters, and will even have trouble shooting down a maneuvering bomber. I know I do.

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
04.08.2014 , 02:38 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Barrel roll should be retro thrusters. You don't need barrel roll with booster recharge. You just don't. Outside of its mobility powers, barrel roll is actually pretty bad. Being forced to choose between eating a missile and resetting the fight is awful, especially in domination where leaving the node can mean the other guys cap it. The question you're going to ask is "but how do you chase people with barrel roll?" Simple -- just boost after them. T5 booster recharge gives a lot of engine power. I chase gunships with boost alone, and there's no problem -- and while I haven't played a match since the patch landed, I'm pretty sure that's just going to get even easier now.
Oh but railguns are totally overpowered. Right. Even though taking a single component on a scout (a component which is pretty good in general) means that you are capable of 100% shutting down any gunship in the game even if that gunship is flown perfectly.

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
04.08.2014 , 02:45 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Range capacitor increases range by 10%. Since damage scales linearly, at the same range (say, 1800 meters), you get about +9% damage. I'll take +9% damage +400m range over +10% damage any day.
Wrong. The boost is a lot less than 9% damage, because it doesn't scale linearly to 0 - it scales linearly to the next range damage about.

For example, consider LLC at 2000m (ignore talents for simplicity). It does 975 dps at 500m and 770dps at 3000m. At 2000m this works out to 852dps.

Buff range by 10% and those threshholds become 550m and 3300m. Now at 2000m you do 867dps, an increase of 1.75%.

The true dps buff is slighty more than 1.75%, because accuracy is also buffed, but that increase is also small: 1.455 percentage points.

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
04.08.2014 , 02:54 PM | #8
Its very difficult to offend me, even if your trying to (which your not, it was a well though out concise post)

at any rate this is day 1 of the new patch so i think it could take some work to make it 100%, I just know that I was playing extremely competitive matches today and this build shined, especially in pursuing and evading. As far as range cap I have taught myself to engage at <3000 meters "most" of the time so I would rarely if ever get the full benefit of range caps.

Also when I refer to weapons over speed I mainly mean blaster overcharge, you dont really have to sacrifice anything else. Ill put the turning back on to see if it helps with the dogfights, but atm I am honestly not missing the 10% turn that I had before. Had a lot of dogfights today and didnt feel slugish in the turns.

As far as lieutenant pierce that was intentional, wanted to try out pinpointing. Ammo maybe could be swapped out if you play with the t3 scout/strike as they are GREAT at refilling ammo (might have to try that to get something else)

All in all though really enjoying the speed of this build, previously had only been able to enjoy this on the T1 scout (since blaster OC was such a good option, but now I cant really afford it)
Ahazi Server Refugee (Beta - Shutdown) RIP TIE & Twin Ion
[Circle of Emnity] - Pincer - Ocula Pilot - The Bastion
New to GSF? Look Here!. // And Here!

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
04.08.2014 , 03:14 PM | #9
Well, you equipped your T2 scout for speed chasing. I won't be telling you that it is wrong because that's exactly what I did to my T2 scout in the few games I played with it, but tbh, you would have more success with speed and chasing if you'd put a Nova in your loadout for these purposes, while keeping your (a bit tweaked) Flashfire a dogfighter.

I will also not deny your success, but maaayyybeeee, you could have more success with two specialized ships. What you created is a pretty much speed/damage hybrid, which I sure approve of because I love hybrids (one doesn't need to swap ships for different scenarios), but I am not sure if hybrids have bright future in GSF.

I could call my lil Nova a bit hybrid, too, as she carries TT and CF for insane spike, and everything else for mobility. And the experience says, that in a fight where two good teams fight, I do well, survive, kill people, evade who can't be killed, usually top 3, often top 1. But once there are two awesome coordinating teams, my little hybrid firepower is not enough to actually score enough kills to satisfy me, and what's even worse, it comes for sacrifice of mobility which makes it insanely hard for me to survive coordinated attacks.
If I had everything in mobility (Speed engine, Regen thrusters, Engine recharge, Quick-charge shield), I would probably have easier time survivng, could probably shoot around more potshots, score some kills. (or as I call them, 'finishers')
If I had everything in damage (a fighting-equipped Flashfire instead of Nova), I would maybe die in the heat of battle a couple more times, but I would definitely score a lot more kills.

Bottom line, I sure encourage you to experiment and learn your stuff well, don't let anyone discourage you from what you are doing, because even though there will be lots of criticism, you sure can wield your ship the best, learn to abuse its strengths (and weaknesses too), and be an ace in a not your everyday Flashfire.

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
04.10.2014 , 05:24 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by DamascusAdontise View Post
As far as range cap I have taught myself to engage at <3000 meters "most" of the time so I would rarely if ever get the full benefit of range caps.
As far as I understand it, with range capacitor at 3000 meters you do the same damage you would do without range capacitor at 2700 meters.

Quote:
As far as lieutenant pierce that was intentional, wanted to try out pinpointing. Ammo maybe could be swapped out if you play with the t3 scout/strike as they are GREAT at refilling ammo (might have to try that to get something else)
Can't really do that impside, only pubside. Imps only get two guys with pinpointing and concentrated fire, and the other has rapid reload.

Quote:
(since blaster OC was such a good option, but now I cant really afford it)
I disagree. >_>
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>