Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Crew offensive passives- ITT I propose changes!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Crew offensive passives- ITT I propose changes!

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
04.08.2014 , 07:34 PM | #31
Translation: we can filter out the effects of all the other variables to examine only the effect of accuracy.

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
04.08.2014 , 07:44 PM | #32
That said, yes, the fact that there are variables orthogonal to accuracy dilutes its value. I was disputing the contention that the law of large numbers (more precisely, the fact that it may not be satisfied in this case) dilutes it.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
04.09.2014 , 08:55 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Maybe part of the problem is that the passives favor secondary weapons too much, and part of the solution is to rework Spare Ammo and Rapid Reload. Maybe the current four should be merged -- I'd take +2% accuracy and +2 degrees firing arc on my Flashfire, and my Pike would love +15% ammo -20% reload time. At that point you could introduce other interesting passives, perhaps reducing lock-on time or increasing range or something. That would make me really think about my crew members, instead of just loading up the same four every time I buy a new ship.

I definitely like this idea.

My gripe with accuracy is that if you EVER pick a crewman without the 6% accuracy, you are just wrong. I'm actually surprised that anyone is in this thread arguing with that- I'm sure every single one of them picks an accuracy crewmen in that spot, and is worried I'm trying to get them nerfed, which, of course, I'm not. I want the delta between some guy who picks one of the crewmen without this passive and someone who picks someone with him to not be so great.

In fact, why is accuracy even an option? With passives like these, when would you be like "yea, screw it, I don't need a 5-20% damage boost to all my blasters forever". It seems really out of place.



The ONLY time you pick a crewman without it is if you want a specific copilot ability. Now, unlike some of you, I LIKE that tradeoff- but I don't think it should be so steep. You shouldn't be trading a massive blaster bonus with something almost inconsequential.

Republic:
Aric Jorgan -> With Spare Ammo, Rapid Reload, and Concentrated Fire, this never-picked companion has a very desirable copilot ability, but lacks accuracy. If you DO love missiles enough to care about spare ammo and rapid reload, you'd probably prefer firing arc to actually launch them easier, and if you are rocket podding you want the accuracy for the extra blaster stuff. This guy represents a pretty big dealt by lacking that accuracy, and if accuracy wasn't as painful to lose, you might actually see people pick this guy!

Corso Riggs -> Every female smuggler's favorite niceguy beta, Corso brings the generally worthless Rapid Reload to the table with Improved Kill Zone, and, oddly, the evasion debuff. It's definitely odd to think that you'd want to run the evasion debuff but not the +accuracy. If rapid reload was something worthwhile, this guy would be some kind of cool burst niche- "I'll put the evasion thing on them, and then I'll really hammer them with whatever rapid reload lets me do". Instead, poor Corso can't be chosen.

HK-51 -> Honestly some people subscribe just because of this guy. He rolls around with Rapid Reload and Improved Kill Zone, and has the desirable Concentrated Fire. It's fair to say that if either one of his passives were accuracy, he would be chosen much much more, and make players happier in general. But of course, that's a trick- the real solution is to make accuracy not a massive delta. This guy is even a trap- many players run him because they love the character, but pay the price in blaster damage. All of the players who pick HK or Alric should instead run Qyzen.

Sergeant Rusk -> With the worthless Lingering Effect (copilot abilities like this I'll talk about in another thread), Spare Ammo, and Rapid Reload, this clown is just a terrible version of Alric Jorgan. In this ONE case, fixing the crew passives wouldn't even solve the issue of him not being picked, you'd also have to make his passive worth taking ever- and it's generally lame that it's something that would be in close competition with the very similar concentrated fire (if both of these had similar value, you'd take them on similar ships- a passive such as -evasion or something would be better on this guy).

Zenith -> This guy has Spare Ammo and Improved Kill Zone, a decent set of passives if you were all about cluster missiles, but again, the lack of accuracy holds you back just so so much. He also has the trashcan Lingering Effect. Not as bad as the Rapid Reload waste of slot, but still terrible. Republic can't even get Lingering Effect without dropping Accuracy, a note no one cares about because of the poor quality of the move, but it would be an issue if the copilot abilities were balanced before the offensive crew passives.

Empire:

HK-51 appears here, of course.

Kaliyo -> With Rapid Reload, Improved Kill Zone, and In Your Sights, this cute crewmember is a mirror of Corso- and just as bad.

Khem Val -> With Spare Ammo and Improved Kill Zone, Khem has often been chosen just for Bypass. Though mostly prenerf (and nerfed a spot more than normal), Bypass is still a solid choice with some surprising kill capability. The fact that this guy doesn't have accuracy really limits him though- the fact that empire can't even get bypass and accuracy is relatively surprising. This doesn't need to change, but the delta between accuracy and the others should be closed so that this decision isn't so punishing to the imperial player.

MZ-12 -> Though hydro spanner is a mostly terrible copilot ability, having no merit outside of charged plating and not that much even with it, it's unfortunate that his Spare Ammo / Rapid Reload combo (similar to Aric but without the good copilot ability) is forced on you if you wanted to get his aid.

Skadge -> The only other source of Bypass, this monster has Spare Ammo and Rapid Reload, relatively weak passives. He's very similar to Khem in fact, and generally simply worse.



If it were not for there being such a strict and notable hierarchy of passives, these NINE crewmembers might not be so punishing to anyone who wants to pick them. The best thing you can say about many of them is "at least their copilot ability sucks too".

There's only 15 offensive crewmen across both factions. Nine lack accuracy, and as such are generally discounted promptly. If accuracy was something else and comparable in power (with the accuracy boost baked in or something), then you'd not be stuck with such a driving decision. I think it's pretty lame that 60% of the list just gets thrown out- or tolerated for access to a copilot ability, in a couple cases.



Similar value for offensive passives- basically, making each one alter, slightly, how you deal damage- would really be great, and give us back at least some of those crewmembers.

Gavin_Kelvar's Avatar


Gavin_Kelvar
04.10.2014 , 03:07 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
I definitely like this idea.

My gripe with accuracy is that if you EVER pick a crewman without the 6% accuracy, you are just wrong. I'm actually surprised that anyone is in this thread arguing with that- I'm sure every single one of them picks an accuracy crewmen in that spot, and is worried I'm trying to get them nerfed, which, of course, I'm not. I want the delta between some guy who picks one of the crewmen without this passive and someone who picks someone with him to not be so great.
Well as I said I pick accuracy since 1) rapid reload sucks and is the RFL of offensive passives 2) I rarely run out of ammo so for most situations it pretty much provides no benefit 3) I fly strikers and scouts are one of my biggest enemies, I'd be somewhat crazy to ignore the only passive that helps counter the most powerful defensive stat in the game. Which leaves me with accuracy and firing arc. I default to these two because they're the only ones where I will consistently get a benefit from.

You seem to assume that people pick accuracy because it is so good and not because reload is so minor that its benefit is negligible (automatically making people discount it as a choice) or so rarely ever need extra ammo it makes it a very niche passive (and unless you survive long enough to run out of ammo without this passive/can't find a resupply drone you'll never see a pay off with this passive). Considering that the only reason not to take the accuracy/firing arc combo is if you want a co-pilot ability.

Personally I'm in favor of leaving accuracy alone and buffing rapid reload and ammo so that they're not so terribly weak and/or niche that only under certain circumstances will you actually ever see a benefit from taking those passives. There's absolutely zero reason to take the reload/ammo passive combo as it is pretty much a combination of the two weakest/niche offensive passives. IMO before nerfs are considered both those passives should be buffed so that combo is equally useful to the accuracy/firing arc combo.