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Crew offensive passives- ITT I propose changes!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Crew offensive passives- ITT I propose changes!

Verain's Avatar


Verain
04.06.2014 , 09:05 PM | #1
Offensive:

The four categories here are:
> 8% reduced reload times on missiles, torpedoes, and railguns (NOT mines)
> 25% extra missiles and torpedoes
> 6% extra accuracy
> 2 degrees extra firing arc

The most powerful here is 6% extra accuracy, by a mile. Frequently this is a 10% increase in blaster and pod damage, and often more like 20%! Very rarely does it "only" get down to 6% or less. (if your accuracy is low because of anything, such as tracking, your accuracy could easily be as low as 50%- if you deal X damage at 50% accuracy, you'll deal 1.12X damage at 56% accuracy, for instance). This passive is as good as having an extra capacitor component.

Does accuracy need a nerf? Maybe, actually. It's really really good compared to the others, and maybe the others shouldn't be buffed enough that they can compete. How much extra firing arc could even make up for 6% accuracy? How much extra missiles?

The "extra missiles and torpedoes" one is very valuable with either rocket pods (it's trivial to go out of them) and clusters (you gain 50% more instead of 25% with the double volley). It's far less valuable with the other choices, and entirely worthless for drones, mines, and railguns. It's fair to say that this secondary is deed entirely for four of the eight ships, in fact. This secondary could be a little bit larger.

The "reload time" one is in theory valuable, but in practice is a rather small effect, and likely not worth the passive cost.

Verain's recommendations if we're trying to balance the existing ones:

1)- Accuracy should come down, likely to 4% or 5%. The remaining 1% or 2% accuracy could be added somewhere else passively, as almost everyone uses this and we don't really need a global accuracy nerf. Even with this, I'm afraid it is mandatory for almost all ships.

2)- Reload Time should be increased to 15% at a bare minimum.

3)- 25% extra missiles could be increased to 50%.

4)- 2% tracking could also reduce the tracking penalty by 1 degree.

Even with these changes, you'd still feel like you need the accuracy one.


Verain's real recommendations:

> 5% accuracy
> 5% secondary weapon damage and 25% extra ammo (railguns, mines, drones, missiles, pods, torps, everything)
> 5% crit and 2 degrees firing arc
> 15% extra reload time and 5% firing rate


5% accuracy remains around 10% extra damage, but the others here can sort of be justified. The others become a bit more worthwhile.


This solves several problems:

1- Mandatory accuracy passive could now actually be dropped, even if it remains the best.
2- Secondaries are effective in some manner for all ships.
3- If you can't get the combo you want, your second best combo won't feel derp.

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
04.06.2014 , 09:46 PM | #2
I would honestly be ok with dropping pinpointing to 3% accuracy, or even removing it entirely in favor of something else. It's just so ridiculously strong that it's never worth passing up. That said, I don't want offensive crew passives to turn into tactical crew passives, where you take whoever's prettiest because the passives don't really affect anything.

I think adding 5% crit to improved kill zone isn't a bad idea, but at the same time it just makes me want it even more than I already do, and makes me even more sad when I can't get it.

I'm ok with the idea of secondary weapon damage, but I don't think it really addresses any issue. What secondary weapons exist that would realistically gain kills faster because of it? I think the niche case of eating a conc or slug and living with a sliver of health is rare enough that +5% damage won't be useful in practical situations, and (just eyeballing) I don't think the burst capability of rocket pods will be affected at all (you'll just end up with more overkill).

Any other complaints I might have (railguns being railguns, drones being drones, mines being mines, torps not torping hard enough) are problems with specific weapons and are inapplicable to this suggestion.

Semi-related, I still think it would be better if passive abilities were untied from specific crew members, so you're not arbitrarily restricted on who you can bring with you. I love Blizz, for example, but dude's not copiloting any of my ships.

Quote:
> 15% extra reload time and 5% firing rate
I think you mean less.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
04.07.2014 , 02:08 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
1)- Accuracy should come down, likely to 4% or 5%. The remaining 1% or 2% accuracy could be added somewhere else passively, as almost everyone uses this and we don't really need a global accuracy nerf. Even with this, I'm afraid it is mandatory for almost all ships.
.

No. No no no no no. The game needs less RNG not more. The only appropriate way to nerf this is if you correspondingly increase the base accuracy of every weapon in the game.

Quote:
3)- 25% extra missiles could be increased to 50%.
25% is already plenty strong in the cases where it's actually useful, and where it isn't 50% is no better.

Quote:
4)- 2% tracking could also reduce the tracking penalty by 1 degree.
Yes, the firing arc one needs to have a -5% tracking penalty or similar associated with it (like the railgun talents).

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
04.07.2014 , 03:14 AM | #4
I don't think that the 6% accuracy is too strong, but it's the (sometimes ridiculously low) weapon base accuracy plus tracking penalties that make this bonus have a dramatic impact.

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
04.07.2014 , 10:13 AM | #5
Right now reload time really only has a practical effect on missiles with longish lock-on times. They don't work on rockets or mines, and the effect on railguns is 0.1 seconds per shot, in the best case scenario.

For 'slow' missiles even doubling the effect wouldn't make that much difference because reload time is rarely an issue, and where it is an issue, the reload time is so long that doubling the reduction has a negligible effect on employment.

If you wanted to make it useful, the thing to do would be to keep the number the same (or maybe even nerf it a bit), but turn it into a lock-on time reduction. Rounded up that'd give you possibly in the range of 0.1 to 0.3 seconds off of lock on times. Might be enough to actually make things like proton torps and EMPs worth considering on type one strikes. As well as encouraging scouts to play with thermite and sab probe a bit more. Would even help some types of bombers and gunships, or at least make the missile components less unappealing.

I'm of mixed opinion on increasing missile capacity. Rocket pods could definitely use it (or at least part of it), cluster missiles could use it, but don't really need it. That's a small enough set that just changing the baseline ammo might be a better choice.

Basically when the limiting factor on missile employment for most missiles is actually hitting things with them, buffs to aspects that don't enhance the ability to hit (or do more damage on those occasions when they do hit), really aren't worth all that much.

Splitting the secondary weapons passives a bit more distinctly might be a good idea though. Make one clearly good for slow rate of fire guided munitions (this could potentially include seeker mines and drones, if it's possible to reduce the delay they have in target acquisition). Make the other clearly good for the non-missile secondary weapons.

Either buff what's good about them, or address their deficiencies.

Right now the options mostly address irrelevant aspects of secondary weapon performance.

Some tuning would be required for balance I imagine, but the secondary weapon passives could be made a lot more interesting, even if tightly tuned to prevent missile spam from becoming as bad as ion rail spam (though with the upcoming potential for some ships to effectively have 3 missile breaks, I don't really expect that to happen even if changes were a bit over-generous to begin with).

Not impressed by your "balance the current" suggestions, the "Verain's real suggestions" look fairly good, though I'm still not inclined to consider reload time reductions to be of much interest (well, maybe on minelayers).
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

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Sindariel's Avatar


Sindariel
04.07.2014 , 10:15 AM | #6
Increased firing arc is actually quite useful on the Quell and Pike. It makes missile lock-ons much easier.

Remember: The 2 degrees from crew passives are actually 4 degrees in total.

Sindariel's Avatar


Sindariel
04.07.2014 , 10:17 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Ramalina View Post
Right now reload time really only has a practical effect on missiles with longish lock-on times.
And not even there. Protons have 12s base cooldown. With crew passive, it gets reduced to 11s. That's absolutely not worth to take over anything else.

Edit:

Damn. Double post. -.-

General_Brass's Avatar


General_Brass
04.07.2014 , 10:22 AM | #8
Nerf accuracy to give evasion even greater power ?

Don't see how that would be a problem.

/Sarcasm

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
04.07.2014 , 10:34 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Sindariel View Post
Increased firing arc is actually quite useful on the Quell and Pike. It makes missile lock-ons much easier.

Remember: The 2 degrees from crew passives are actually 4 degrees in total.
It is very nice on proton torps, especially since if you hope to hit anything other than a turret, a bomber, or a new pilot the tier 4 upgrade choice between firing arc and missile speed really isn't a choice at all.

It's reasonable to get the extra firing arc p-torp upgrade if you stick to targets that you don't need the extra firing arc to hit. For the hard to hit ones you need the missile speed, and wish you could get the firing arc too.

In that sense the crew passive is another way to get at the 'very nice but you really need to pick the other one' upgrade from the component upgrade tree.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

Twitch

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
04.07.2014 , 10:48 AM | #10
I would argue that the +6% accuracy being the best depends on what weapons your using. for BLC you should be close enough when you fire to alrdy have over 100% accuracy, so using the faster reload ability is actually better. For ships without that, i'd say it depends on what your flying and what components your using.
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