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Dear Devs: A proposal for Ion Missiles

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Dear Devs: A proposal for Ion Missiles

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
04.05.2014 , 04:27 PM | #11
I look at Ions as I look at Thermites.
Useless for most, but they have huge specialized damage output which I managed to abuse, have fun and reasonable results with. On my Pike I just see several decent options to couple with Clusters, and Ions are one of them. Needless to say, Pike is far from my main ship (that'd be my Nova), far from mastered and I am far from being good with it.
When I decide to fly my Pike, I usually choose one of the three "middle range" missile types to take with Clusters.
Concussions - Now I have the raw damage potential, I don't care if enemy is shielded or not, I just shoot them with the Conc from distance and with everything else once I get in range. Works? Yep, and it is quite fun.
EMP - Less long range damage, and I feel it. Once, I will disable enemy's engines for 15 seconds, and that is a blast. Now, I just use them as tiny Protorps. 300-ish straight hull damage, to finish off those guys who have little hull left and think they are safe under their shields. Against bombers, it's not that great as I tend to just destroy their turrets and mines with lasers. But overally, it also works its purposes.
Ion - Anyone I approach basically starts with no shields which is crazy abusable by Clusters and Quads. It works wonders against bombers themselves. Since usually I find it hardest to get through enemy shield, Ions make this easier for me. Ion, Cluster and Quad chained nicely is pretty much a guaranteed kill on unprepared enemy. Plus they look beautiful. I think they are my favourite.

Look funny on me, but I would not pick Protorps over them. Protorps are way harder to lock, plus, even if you lock, enemy knows it is a protorp because of the long lock time, so they know they need to use their lockbreaker. I have been hit by Protorp twice in my whole GSF history. True, I managed to land some nice hits with my Comet Breaker, but I would pick Ions with that one too, if it was possible.

I of course understand that you would like some changes, I would also like some, personally, but in the whole meta, I think even Ions and Protorps have their place. Maybe they will shine in new scenarios coming with new maps/modes, maybe they will indeed get tweaked a bit.

I, for example, would be delighted to see more "pods" type of rockets. Replace current Rocket Pods with two variants, Thermite Pods and Ion Pods. I guess you can figure the difference. Both 5-6k range, both the same fire rate and capacity (maybe a bit slower/lesser than current Pods), one strong against hulls and weak against shields, the other vice versa.
Maybe even transform current Ions into big dumbfire rockets with 7-8k range, hell, even 10k. Maybe even replace them with a small variant of railgun - no need to lead target, but no scope and only 10k range, with stats of Ion missile, not the railgun.

- uh, see, we all have our propositions to make things "right". Sorry bout that daydream part

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
04.05.2014 , 04:56 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by mr_sim View Post
You talk almost as much as I do but with very little specifics. don't say "Tuesday" like it's the title of some religious text please refer to what specifically you mean, your attempted point is too vague.

I'm not Complaining BTW about Ion missiles, I don't use them and currently don't need them. That said BioWare has shown a dislike of "Lackluster" aspects of the game. For example there is an open conversion on the Sniper Forum started by Eric Musco to change Laze Target because it has be deemed boring and Lackluster. This thread I've started will likely be viewed as valuable feedback by the developers, which is why I do it.

Now to your specific reply to my second and third proposals, Remember they are only proposals, they are get the ball rolling ideas.

Second proposal: Have you ever gotten in a orbit chase around a node. I have and there is no way in hell current Ion missiles will achieve a lock in that situation. But Ion missiles are the perfect thing in that situation because of their snares. Clusters will get a lock but odds are you get one lock one hit and your foe heals and recharges shields before the next launch. This theory that your lasers will have their shields down before your missile hits is not one I've seen in practice, and sounds like something a veteran wouldn't make easy to do either.

Third proposal: Did you catch that fact that that I'm proposing that the same lock time as concussion be maintained but at Proton range instead. Not proton lock time. Again I accuse you of not reading. Do you use proton torpedoes effectively? If not you'll never understand this idea.
I don't why the fact I refer to the next tuesday (April 8) which will have a major update including GSF changes as -you know how I phrase it- actually bothers you, but whatever.

I don't feel Ion missile that lackluster.
Its launching conditions doesn't make it unsuable, although it's not the easier to use. (I get your point about satellites, but I don't think the main purpose to Ion missile is to get a kill with a snare. I'll detail this a bit later)
The main gripe that could be made is that it was not that rare that when it lands shields were already down, doing lackluster damage/effect for the time spent locking.
It seems they know about this and are doing something.

Back on the the "Ion & satellite" subject. I believe it's purposely unusable in this situation. Whether we like Bombers or not, my belief is that it's clearly their job to settle things when it's turning to a stale in cramped area, not Strikes'.
But Ion missiles' snare would be nice in this situation I give you that.
Still, I think that giving it Cluster's launching conditions will result more to a loss by being less potent (balanced around Cluster instead of Conc => no shield one-hit obliteration, and more direct hull landing because of shorter range), than a gain due to more snares (that are only a T5 upgrade).

About Proton-alike launching conditions, there's still Proton's firing arc... It's so limited that it's really easy to break the lock, unless you take the T4 talent. And even with improved firing arc it's not rare it breaks because server decided "You/Your target lagged, so your target exited the arc. Retry."
It is that kind of "ease to use" that we'd lose.
It may be viable, more than Proton itself thanks to the shorter lock time, but while we get one "plus" in one hand (range), we also get one "minus" in the other hand (firing arc).
If it had little more degrees of firing arc, so that once improved it becomes similar to Concussion (Ion Missiles' upgrades would need to change in oreder to include a firing arc improvement), then it would be an significant improvement. Otherwise, it's just slightly changing the use, but without improving it that much.

mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
04.05.2014 , 05:01 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Slivovidze View Post
Look funny on me, but I would not pick Protorps over them. Protorps are way harder to lock, plus, even if you lock, enemy knows it is a protorp because of the long lock time, so they know they need to use their lockbreaker. I have been hit by Protorp twice in my whole GSF history. True, I managed to land some nice hits with my Comet Breaker, but I would pick Ions with that one too, if it was possible.

I of course understand that you would like some changes, I would also like some, personally, but in the whole meta, I think even Ions and Protorps have their place. Maybe they will shine in new scenarios coming with new maps/modes, maybe they will indeed get tweaked a bit.
Twice then you've never flown against me. I assure you Protorps are extremely effective, and nothing is more delightful when you drop one on a ship already at half health. I literally am confident enough to fire and forget and move on to the next target before the torp hits and do so often to be rewarded with kill text as I close on a new victim.

As I said this is to get the discussion going and BW thinking. If the game doesn't grow it's failing. Thermite torps are getting reworked because they weren't being used and maybe Ion missiles or even Plasma Rail are next.
Striker Pilot - Jedi Covenant - Imperial Forces

<Roving Guns>

mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
04.05.2014 , 05:12 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
I don't why the fact I refer to the next tuesday (April 8) which will have a major update including GSF changes as -you know how I phrase it- actually bothers you, but whatever.

I don't feel Ion missile that lackluster.
Its launching conditions doesn't make it unsuable, although it's not the easier to use. (I get your point about satellites, but I don't think the main purpose to Ion missile is to get a kill with a snare. I'll detail this a bit later)
The main gripe that could be made is that it was not that rare that when it lands shields were already down, doing lackluster damage/effect for the time spent locking.
It seems they know about this and are doing something.

Back on the the "Ion & satellite" subject. I believe it's purposely unusable in this situation. Whether we like Bombers or not, my belief is that it's clearly their job to settle things when it's turning to a stale in cramped area, not Strikes'.
But Ion missiles' snare would be nice in this situation I give you that.
Still, I think that giving it Cluster's launching conditions will result more to a loss by being less potent (balanced around Cluster instead of Conc => no shield one-hit obliteration, and more direct hull landing because of shorter range), than a gain due to more snares (that are only a T5 upgrade).

About Proton-alike launching conditions, there's still Proton's firing arc... It's so limited that it's really easy to break the lock, unless you take the T4 talent. And even with improved firing arc it's not rare it breaks because server decided "You/Your target lagged, so your target exited the arc. Retry."
It is that kind of "ease to use" that we'd lose.
It may be viable, more than Proton itself thanks to the shorter lock time, but while we get one "plus" in one hand (range), we also get one "minus" in the other hand (firing arc).
If it had little more degrees of firing arc, so that once improved it becomes similar to Concussion (Ion Missiles' upgrades would need to change in oreder to include a firing arc improvement), then it would be an significant improvement. Otherwise, it's just slightly changing the use, but without improving it that much.
Just so we are clear I wasn't suggesting Snares cause self destruct, not sure if you were going that way or no.

With everything there must be balance, though Ion missile might need a buff anyway but not what I'm discussing. That is why I suggest the smaller reticle. However more range means you can use that reticle more effectively. BTW if your using the tier 4 upgrade to reticle and not speed your doing it wrong IMO. The fact is it's lock on time more then reticle size that hinders Proton lock based on my experience.

PS I was aware the whole time you meant Apr 8. I still have no idea what change(s) you are referring to.
Striker Pilot - Jedi Covenant - Imperial Forces

<Roving Guns>

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
04.05.2014 , 05:40 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by mr_sim View Post
Just so we are clear I wasn't suggesting Snares cause self destruct, not sure if you were going that way or no.

With everything there must be balance, though Ion missile might need a buff anyway but not what I'm discussing. That is why I suggest the smaller reticle. However more range means you can use that reticle more effectively. BTW if your using the tier 4 upgrade to reticle and not speed your doing it wrong IMO. The fact is it's lock on time more then reticle size that hinders Proton lock based on my experience.

PS I was aware the whole time you meant Apr 8. I still have no idea what change(s) you are referring to.
Don't worry, neither of us was suggesting that snare cause self-destruct. They just allow an easier time closing up an ennemy, aiming, and locking other missiles, which is hard around a satellite.

Personnally, I find Proton's T4 "speed upgrade" over-rated. The lock time is so long that you just have to wait 1-2s refilling engines, and wait the "launched tune" to break the lock. Or just run behind an object if you had some spare energy.
As a result, Torpedos lands on people that either :
- play badly
- have wasted their lock-breaker
- ate a point-blank torpedo while jousting.
- play bombers
The speed will not make torpedoes land more significantly while the firing arc allows me to launch much more of them.

As for the update, as you know there are new ships. But also components tweaking.
Among the components changes some missiles were buffed in PTS (Thermite Torpedo and Ion Missile, although it wasn't advertised on patch notes)... and Ion missile's hull damage should normally go up from the (puny) damage it does now, to 790...
...Unless Dulfy's data are wrong.
But Thermite's buff was confirmed in the devs' livestream, so I doubt Ion's buff was wrong/cancelled.

mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
04.09.2014 , 04:20 PM | #16
So I hear they didn't get a damage buff.
Striker Pilot - Jedi Covenant - Imperial Forces

<Roving Guns>

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
04.09.2014 , 04:37 PM | #17
Yeah, they didn't in the end...
It's a shame to let it like that.