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Real DPS requierement for Oricon. On bosses, not dummy

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Real DPS requierement for Oricon. On bosses, not dummy

chokoss's Avatar


chokoss
04.03.2014 , 06:05 AM | #1
Hello everyone,

I'm looking for the real minimum DPS you need on a boss. The one for which :
- above, you are an asset for your raid
- below, you are a burden for your raid
You can see that as the minimum average DPS for DPS raiders, which means some can compensate others weakness.
So saying "I often hit 3k on Nefra" is not relevant for what I'm looking for. For Nefra, I thing it must be around 2000-2200. It might be different for melee and distant, like on Corrupteur Zero maybe .

The idea behind that is :
- Being able to know, even if you are not raid parsing, if you are doing enough for you're raid.
- Being able to know if you manage the boss mechanics well, even if you parses above 3k on a dummy.

Here is my guess, but I don't parse for a long time so I'm waiting for help here It can be too high or low.
Nefra : 2k
Draxus : 2k2
Grob'thok : 2k4
Corruptor : 2k5 distant, melee ?
Brontes : 2k3

Bestia : 2k1
Tyrans : 2k2
Calphayus : 1k8 ? hard to know due to long no DPS phase.
Raptus : not relevant. t's about burst.
Council : 2k4
"Ce n'est pas parce que tu parles que tu es intellignent"

Rasen's Avatar


Rasen
04.03.2014 , 10:33 AM | #2
I think it is a little tough to say because of the group dynamic. I know in my ops group I currently dish out 3100+ on Nefra(and climbing I might add ) and two others dish out 2900 or so so we are able to bring in someone that only does 2200. Maybe lower. I can't say indisputably, but...

Nefra - 2500
DPS are pretty much stationary for most of the fight so if you can't hit this number than IMO you need to practice more or get more gear.

Draxus - 2000
Since this fight is erratic with pauses happening frequently and new enemies being introduced your DPS doesn't have to be too high. Nonetheless if you are quick to get on target it should be decent.

Grob'thok - 2600
Again a stationary fight if not even moreso. Also has a moderate DPS check unless Nefra so you should be able to hit this number easy.

Corrupter Zero - 2200
Erratic fight as well, but also very easy when it comes to DPS requirements. If group does mechanics and positioning properly you can take your time. I have never seen him enrage for this so I'd imagine DPS doesn't even need to be too decent to succeed.

Brontes - Not sure. Would need to think. Same goes for rest of the Dread Masters. I'll go over my logs and see.

JMagee's Avatar


JMagee
04.03.2014 , 11:05 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by chokoss View Post
Hello everyone,

I'm looking for the real minimum DPS you need on a boss. The one for which :
- above, you are an asset for your raid
- below, you are a burden for your raid
You can see that as the minimum average DPS for DPS raiders, which means some can compensate others weakness.
So saying "I often hit 3k on Nefra" is not relevant for what I'm looking for. For Nefra, I thing it must be around 2000-2200. It might be different for melee and distant, like on Corrupteur Zero maybe .

The idea behind that is :
- Being able to know, even if you are not raid parsing, if you are doing enough for you're raid.
- Being able to know if you manage the boss mechanics well, even if you parses above 3k on a dummy.

Here is my guess, but I don't parse for a long time so I'm waiting for help here It can be too high or low.
Nefra : 2k
Draxus : 2k2
Grob'thok : 2k4
Corruptor : 2k5 distant, melee ?
Brontes : 2k3

Bestia : 2k1
Tyrans : 2k2
Calphayus : 1k8 ? hard to know due to long no DPS phase.
Raptus : not relevant. t's about burst.
Council : 2k4
Really, really difficult to say on a boss to boss basis.

I'd say if you had 4 diverse dps (2 good burst single target and 2 good sustained with good AoE) 2.5k on a dummy would be fine for all of the DF/DP HM bosses.

But if your comp is 4 Infiltration shadows that parse 2.8k, you're still likely to have issues on certain fights (Corrupter Zero, Draxus)

If you list your raid comp, DPS, tanks and heals, I think you could get a little bit more of a detailed response.

cxten's Avatar


cxten
04.03.2014 , 11:47 AM | #4
It's hard to say in a way. On say Nefra there's a balance between dps and heals to deal with. I'm pretty sure you'd beat the enrage on Nefra 8-man HM with all 4 dps doing under 1200. (A bit over 2 million health, not sure what the enrage is on hard mode but I think* it's 6:00, divide by say 5 for 4 dps + the tanks & heals all together counting as a 5th.)

But if you did kill it with each dps doing say 1200, you could say for sure that your healers are better than your dps. The dps killing it earlier makes it easier on the heals (not that it's so challenging, but it's more difficult to heal it than to do 1200 dps).

* I remember a pull while 8-manning 16 man where various people died and I think Nefra soft enraged around 6:00 (but it's manageable for a little while as we did down it like 15 seconds later).

chokoss's Avatar


chokoss
04.04.2014 , 04:46 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by JMagee View Post
Really, really difficult to say on a boss to boss basis.

I'd say if you had 4 diverse dps (2 good burst single target and 2 good sustained with good AoE) 2.5k on a dummy would be fine for all of the DF/DP HM bosses.

But if your comp is 4 Infiltration shadows that parse 2.8k, you're still likely to have issues on certain fights (Corrupter Zero, Draxus)

If you list your raid comp, DPS, tanks and heals, I think you could get a little bit more of a detailed response.
As I said, The aim is to be able to have a good idea if you are an asset or a liability for your raid group, regardless of the raid comp. In my guild, raid comp is not stone, and the answer could be interesting for PU as well.

And 4 Sin DPS for Corruptor Zero could be an interesting challenge

@Rasen. Thanks for your opinion on that. I think 2500 for Nefra is a high requierement, because I never saw the enrage and we did that with 3 heals at first. I agree with cxten on that, it must be 2000 top. Of course the key for this boss is about cure and not DPS.

On the opposite, 2200 on Corrupteur seems very low don't you think ? At least for a distant. Melee can have some issue moving and taking care of the mines, but for a distant you're almost never moving and you've got few good AoE opportunities. We raid off a couple of time because the DPS was to low on the adds we couldn't hit the boss enough.
"Ce n'est pas parce que tu parles que tu es intellignent"

jade_de_aguilera's Avatar


jade_de_aguilera
04.04.2014 , 05:48 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by chokoss View Post
On the opposite, 2200 on Corrupteur seems very low don't you think ? At least for a distant. Melee can have some issue moving and taking care of the mines, but for a distant you're almost never moving and you've got few good AoE opportunities. We raid off a couple of time because the DPS was to low on the adds we couldn't hit the boss enough.
2200 is OK. I remember a parse of my team in the past that was 2300, 2200, 2000 & 1800 on this boss.
How fast the adds die depends on how fast you kill the repair droids.

Vortumnus's Avatar


Vortumnus
04.04.2014 , 07:23 AM | #7
Quote:
Nefra - 2500
DPS are pretty much stationary for most of the fight so if you can't hit this number than IMO you need to practice more or get more gear.
Nefra does not need such a high damage. You can do Nefra 16-man Hardmode with 8 players easily just for farming the implants that may drop...
Don`t ask me what damage my group is capable of... since we are not involved in progressing, we are not checking numbers unless we are not running into problems because of damage or healing-power...

Macio's Avatar


Macio
04.04.2014 , 08:02 AM | #8
this is very hard to answer as it will depend on what is your other team doing.

We had well undergeared player with us this week during DF HM run. He had 69 mian hand, mix of 72/78 comms gear and he was doing on average 1k dps less then rest of us (8man group).

if you want to see how well he did and how it looked on Parsec for each fight:
http://www.twitch.tv/kretocienias/b/516269024

But just so you can know how much he did compared to rest of the group:

Nefra:
Three of us geared and experienced: 3.1, 3.0, 2.85
undegeared: 1850 ( he had to dispel himself and myself ever other time so his dps was bit lower)
average: 2.7


Gate Commander:
Three of us : 2.6, 2.2, 2.2
undegeared: 1450
average: 2.11

Gobthrok (really slacking by my part as I was showing new tank how to position boss to make it easy for him):
Three of us : 3.1, 2.7, 2.55
undegeared: 2100
average: 2.61

Corruptor Zero:
Three of us : 2.7, 2.6, 2.4
undegeared: 1700
average: 2.35


As you can see as long as other members know what to do you can have one not as good or well geared players and on Brontes starts to pose a threat but still more of a mechanics check then dps/gear.

All four fights were beaten comfortably so if you add each dps and divide by 4 you will know what you would expect to have from each DPS for each fight to make it easy sail. If you have less as a group its still doable but takes longer. Brontes might be the only issue as "clock" phase is a DPS check really.
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JMagee's Avatar


JMagee
04.04.2014 , 08:25 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by chokoss View Post
As I said, The aim is to be able to have a good idea if you are an asset or a liability for your raid group, regardless of the raid comp. In my guild, raid comp is not stone, and the answer could be interesting for PU as well.
And I understand that. My point is that with the differences in encounters (fights with adds vs single target vs. calphayus vs. kiting council) It's nearly impossible to give you a hard number for every person for every fight. If you're fluidly changing comps week-in week-out, you're absolutely going to find it harder some weeks than others, especially if you're concerned about a hard number for being an asset.

Nefra can easily be done with 3 dps and 3healers. It can easily be done with 4 dps and 2 healers. If you have a ranged DPS with a cleanse (sage/mando), it is incredibly useful to sit him at range, help with cleanses, and to peel off the adds that spawn from going toward the melee/heals/tanks. Because of that utility, his numbers aren't going to be great, especially for Gunnery/TK with their lack of autocasts.

You can get huge numbers on Draxus/Grob/CZ if your DPS spec is AoE heavy. Dot-smash dominates numbers on those fights. But with all those adds that are around, it's hard to differentiate between add damage and boss damage. If you peel off two people on adds for CZ and have 2 people focus the gold and then back on Zero, the numbers are going to be staggeringly different.

If you go Future then Past for Calphayus, you can beat on the Boss for long periods of time, than fluff your numbers some more on all of the crystals during the second time phase. Whereas if you go Past then Future there aren't as many targets to damage.

I run Assault on VG, and am the one who usually draws the short straw for kiting Raptus (which makes sense). I can still put out numbers while kiting, but I'm doing less damage than if I were on Bestia/Calphayus.

That's why I suggested a dummy parse. If you can parse that high on a dummy, you know your spec pretty well, and would not be a liability going into DF/DP. You can try and make it black-and-white and say "If you don't do 2500 on each fight, than you're not an asset.", but in my opinion, with the differences in fights, and the differences in specs for each fight, you're going to have so many numbers to concern yourself with it's not worth it.

Run the fights with the group in a parser, you'll know (if there are any) who the weak link(s) is/are pretty quickly.