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Kaggath Tournament Finals - Droid Supremacy vs Dark Imperium

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament Finals - Droid Supremacy vs Dark Imperium

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
04.01.2014 , 08:50 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
I didn't mean in one battle, and I stick to the fact that a stealthed fleet equal in firepower to like 60 ISD's (according to Beni) would take down the Black Sun navy...
Personally, I disagree with those numbers, but if that's what we're going with, fine.
Added Chapter 35 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.01.2014 , 08:58 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I would like to point out that as a droid neither Traya nor her assassins can use the Force to track G0-T0 in any way. She is effectively blind to all his doings, which could prove a significant advantage to him.I'm not sure what your point here is, the factories are the only things that need to be protected...
Id disagree, Traya said that the droids (G0-T0, T3 and HK) actually had force alignments because of Surik.
She also said that she could track any being by their actions, and that Force users were simply easier, took less time.

I'd say she could track G0-T0. Predicting his moves may be harder, but she could track him.
An explanation for her Malachor talk is easy, that the Exiles choice would alter what happens to T3, whether T3 lives as a republic hero, or dies at the hand of the Emperor, and Traya could not tell the exile and make that choice for her.

I see no evidence that she cannot track them.


As for the Geonosis thing, point was that ships could be tracked entering into a planetary shield, but with individual shields they wouldn't have long enough to stop the factory going "boom"
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away fromů save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Scoundrel
Force In Balance - The Harbinger

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.01.2014 , 09:06 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Just like to say, this Harrower business isn't me overstating them. We went through every argument on them last round, and beni said these Harrowers were 2-300% (or 3-400%, I forget) more effective than a normal Harrower.

With a normal harrower being the equivalent of an ISD, (Due to them serving the Same role) I stick to my belief.
I'd point out that the estimations I made are just that, estimations. But anyway I said they were worth 2-3 originally but decided its possible they were more, but Tunewalker brought up the point that with stealth capabilities they would have been able to avoid many direct fights and get the very best out of their numbers. So 2 to 3 seems more reasonable.

However it seems the Imperial Navy consisted mainly of ISDs, not ISD-IIs. So with the ISDs, like the Harrowers, being the mainstay of the Imperial Navy I'd say the era equivalent for the Harrower would be the ISD-I. Still they'll prove a major obstacle for the Supremacy, but this could be overcome if they say acquire a crystal field gravtrap.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.01.2014 , 09:49 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Id disagree, Traya said that the droids (G0-T0, T3 and HK) actually had force alignments because of Surik.
She also said that she could track any being by their actions, and that Force users were simply easier, took less time.

I'd say she could track G0-T0. Predicting his moves may be harder, but she could track him.
An explanation for her Malachor talk is easy, that the Exiles choice would alter what happens to T3, whether T3 lives as a republic hero, or dies at the hand of the Emperor, and Traya could not tell the exile and make that choice for her.

I see no evidence that she cannot track them.


As for the Geonosis thing, point was that ships could be tracked entering into a planetary shield, but with individual shields they wouldn't have long enough to stop the factory going "boom"
Your going to have to provide some evidence for that, she couldn't predict any of their futures.

I find your explanation unlikely. Given that the book hadn't even been written yet. This also doesn't explain HK, or why she lumped HK and T3 together under the title of droids, clearly that is of some significance.

They are droids, they have no presence in the Force, that is why.

The issue there is that the ray shields protecting the droid factory protected it from any fast moving projectiles. This includes ships, and including a stealthed ship plummeting towards the factory with the intent of colliding.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.01.2014 , 01:57 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I'd point out that the estimations I made are just that, estimations. But anyway I said they were worth 2-3 originally but decided its possible they were more, but Tunewalker brought up the point that with stealth capabilities they would have been able to avoid many direct fights and get the very best out of their numbers. So 2 to 3 seems more reasonable.

However it seems the Imperial Navy consisted mainly of ISDs, not ISD-IIs. So with the ISDs, like the Harrowers, being the mainstay of the Imperial Navy I'd say the era equivalent for the Harrower would be the ISD-I. Still they'll prove a major obstacle for the Supremacy, but this could be overcome if they say acquire a crystal field gravtrap.
Ahhh Ok, the confusion there. You said 200%-300% more (found it ) and that means 300%-400% of the original (IE, 20% more is 120% of the original) or 3-4 times it. But moving on.

That's a good point, but again, I was talking in a prolonged environment, and a fleet that powerful which has stealthed technology, in a Prolonged environment will not get overrun by anything less than a huge fleet, one Warren simply cannot send.
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away fromů save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Scoundrel
Force In Balance - The Harbinger

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.01.2014 , 02:02 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Your going to have to provide some evidence for that, she couldn't predict any of their futures.

I find your explanation unlikely. Given that the book hadn't even been written yet. This also doesn't explain HK, or why she lumped HK and T3 together under the title of droids, clearly that is of some significance.

They are droids, they have no presence in the Force, that is why.

The issue there is that the ray shields protecting the droid factory protected it from any fast moving projectiles. This includes ships, and including a stealthed ship plummeting towards the factory with the intent of colliding.
Firstly, Never, ever, bring up real life reasons for Kotor 2 inaccuracies
If you're going to say "No, book wasn't released" I could just as easily say "Yes, it was added in because it was a line they could re-use that Traya had already said in the game. The original Traya at the core was Artris, and thus everything that was recorded in the Core was unplanned, and rushed. The droid line was added in literally as last minute as they get"

But yes, let's stick to in universe theories. IE, both droids were involved in Suriks hunt for Revan, and if Kreia told her that she'd be making surik's choice for her. We seem to be forgetting how much Kreia lied to get the exile to realise things on her own.

My theory about why she could track them, is twofold.
She makes an entire speech about a Mynock in the sand, flapping it wings, causing waves. Those waves can be traced back to the source, and force users create even larger waves.

She also states that even the droids are starting to have mild force attunements around the Exile, how they have started to have Force Alignments.

Thus, G0-T0 is one of the many cases (MANY, 100's of Junkyard droids on Raxus, the Meedi's etc) in which a droid has mild force Sensitivity.

Thus, trackable.
But I still agree, probably not predictable.
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away fromů save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Scoundrel
Force In Balance - The Harbinger

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.01.2014 , 02:04 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Ahhh Ok, the confusion there. You said 200%-300% more (found it ) and that means 300%-400% of the original (IE, 20% more is 120% of the original) or 3-4 times it. But moving on.

That's a good point, but again, I was talking in a prolonged environment, and a fleet that powerful which has stealthed technology, in a Prolonged environment will not get overrun by anything less than a huge fleet, one Warren simply cannot send.
Nah you had it right the first time, I intially stated 200-300% i.e. 2 to 3, but considered the possibility of 300-400%, but the latter seems more likely.

Unless of course the fleet is somehow trapped, but I'll think of that.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.01.2014 , 02:09 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Nah you had it right the first time, I intially stated 200-300% i.e. 2 to 3, but considered the possibility of 300-400%, but the latter seems more likely.

Unless of course the fleet is somehow trapped, but I'll think of that.
The fleet being all in one place makes no sense.

And if it was trapped is something I have arguments for, don't you worry!

Oh, one more thing. When talking of Geonosis, I meant Stealthed Extinction Bombers going in squads and "dropping their loads" not ramming into a factory.
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away fromů save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Scoundrel
Force In Balance - The Harbinger

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.01.2014 , 02:15 PM | #29
Eh, Number one way around a Crystal Grav Field Trap? Interdictors.

Gravity well projectors were designed to simulate the gravity of a planet in a given area, and CGT's were blocked by masses of Gravity.

And on defending worlds like Raxus, Malachor, with debris, you won't be able to tell the difference.
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away fromů save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Scoundrel
Force In Balance - The Harbinger

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.01.2014 , 02:21 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Firstly, Never, ever, bring up real life reasons for Kotor 2 inaccuracies
If you're going to say "No, book wasn't released" I could just as easily say "Yes, it was added in because it was a line they could re-use that Traya had already said in the game. The original Traya at the core was Artris, and thus everything that was recorded in the Core was unplanned, and rushed. The droid line was added in literally as last minute as they get"

But yes, let's stick to in universe theories. IE, both droids were involved in Suriks hunt for Revan, and if Kreia told her that she'd be making surik's choice for her. We seem to be forgetting how much Kreia lied to get the exile to realise things on her own.

My theory about why she could track them, is twofold.
She makes an entire speech about a Mynock in the sand, flapping it wings, causing waves. Those waves can be traced back to the source, and force users create even larger waves.

She also states that even the droids are starting to have mild force attunements around the Exile, how they have started to have Force Alignments.

Thus, G0-T0 is one of the many cases (MANY, 100's of Junkyard droids on Raxus, the Meedi's etc) in which a droid has mild force Sensitivity.

Thus, trackable.
But I still agree, probably not predictable.
Its called writer intentions and they should always be taken into account, if a writer didn't intend something, it didn't happen. Case in point it would be a fanon assumption to say that Bane secretly controlled Zannah's body.

2. Actually that's probably right, I looked at it again and Traya actually lumps Bao-Dur in that pile as well. She also makes a vague remark about T3 going on "one last journey", thought that may have been a guess I can't be sure.

Anyway as for the matter at hand, again we are going to need to some actual hard evidence if we are to start claiming that G0-T0 is force-sensitive or even attuned. Because that is quite the claim. I expect that Traya could predict the actions of the droids but her inability to sense the droids themselves will likely greatly hamper her abilities.

P.S. The junkyard 'droids', they are as I have explained technobeasts. I don't know what a "Meedi" is.