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Kaggath Tournament Finals - Droid Supremacy vs Dark Imperium

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament Finals - Droid Supremacy vs Dark Imperium

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
03.31.2014 , 04:55 PM | #11
Alright, I'll throw out a few arguments for the DS.

  • Fleet size- the DS's fleet is much, much larger than the DI's and made up of smaller ships. This allows them the ability to move quickly and in large numbers without the DI being able to suitably engage them especially considering the DI's lack of interdiction technology.
  • They could quite simply build a massive droid army and strike three DI worlds at once running any blockades, then claim Saluecami for the cloning (Terror Droids), or perhaps Raxus Prime for its shipyards and droid factories (crippling the DI's space reinforcements and giving the DS a massive ground advantage even greater than it has), and/or Bonadan's factories as well.
  • If Raxus Prime falls, the DI's navy's days are numbered. The DS's smaller ships are a boon because they need less space and smaller shipyards to build them. Combining Bothawui and Mon Cal's shipyards with the fighter production over Nar Shadda compared to the largest DI shipyard of Raxus Prime, the DS blows the DI away in starting numbers and production.

Just my opening thoughts for Warren. Haven't decided one way or the other.
Zey: "Kal, you know that the Sith are bad news. They're evil. They've always been the cause of endless war and carnage across the galaxy."
Skirata: "Oh, that's a good one. 'My decapitations are more morally valid than your decapitations.' Only difference I can see is that they plan to end up with trillions dead, and you do-gooders manage it by accident."

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
03.31.2014 , 05:17 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Alright, I'll throw out a few arguments for the DS.

  • Fleet size- the DS's fleet is much, much larger than the DI's and made up of smaller ships. This allows them the ability to move quickly and in large numbers without the DI being able to suitably engage them especially considering the DI's lack of interdiction technology.
  • They could quite simply build a massive droid army and strike three DI worlds at once running any blockades, then claim Saluecami for the cloning (Terror Droids), or perhaps Raxus Prime for its shipyards and droid factories (crippling the DI's space reinforcements and giving the DS a massive ground advantage even greater than it has), and/or Bonadan's factories as well.
  • If Raxus Prime falls, the DI's navy's days are numbered. The DS's smaller ships are a boon because they need less space and smaller shipyards to build them. Combining Bothawui and Mon Cal's shipyards with the fighter production over Nar Shadda compared to the largest DI shipyard of Raxus Prime, the DS blows the DI away in starting numbers and production.

Just my opening thoughts for Warren. Haven't decided one way or the other.
All of those points seem to rely on the first point, simply because Warren can't land large numbers of troops without space superiority.

And the problem there, is I do have interdictors. 3 different kinds of them....

I'd also state that whilst warrens numbers are astronomically higher, he ships pale in comparison to mine. And I'm talking pale pale, Malgus' stealth fleet alone could obliterate her entire Armada.

Edit: Unpredictability doesn't work, 'cuz Traya, and Storming 3 worlds wouldn't be possible without Geonosian factories, which could easily be destroyed by stealthed forces.
Eg, Trayas skill in shatter point allows her to see the catacomb weakness of the factories, or Stealthed bombers could slip through shields, annihilate, and then restealth.
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from… save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Seeliara Sage
The Gate Crashing, Dragon Slaying, Eternal Warrior from Beyond.

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
03.31.2014 , 07:31 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
And the problem there, is I do have interdictors. 3 different kinds of them....

I'd also state that whilst warrens numbers are astronomically higher, he ships pale in comparison to mine. And I'm talking pale pale, Malgus' stealth fleet alone could obliterate her entire Armada.

Edit: Unpredictability doesn't work, 'cuz Traya, and Storming 3 worlds wouldn't be possible without Geonosian factories, which could easily be destroyed by stealthed forces.
Eg, Trayas skill in shatter point allows her to see the catacomb weakness of the factories, or Stealthed bombers could slip through shields, annihilate, and then restealth.
I'd like to see proof, its not that I don't believe you I just can't think of 3 Sith Empire or OCF ships that act as interdictors off the top of my head...

I'm kinda sick of you overstating the Rakata tech's abilities. I'm not questioning the superiority of your ships but don't overstep your position. Warren's ships don't bring the Harrowers up in armaments like the previous matches, and the Harrower's standard armaments and shields are akin to a small Victory class (without Rakata tech) so even as powerful as they are numbers can still overwhelm them. What we have tro debate is if Warren has those numbers.

There is no way in hell Traya is good enough at foresight to see three unique and separate attacks panned by inorganic beings being launched simultaneously on her worlds and then properly order her forces to attack Geonosis and use her Shatterpoint there as well. The odds of her properly assuming that her visions forsee three different attacks as well as knowing she can move on Geonosis is beyond even her. Not to mention I question how effective her abilities will serve her against machines as there is no intent or whatnot for her to sense. Again, don't overstate her abilities here either.

I accept the stealth bomber argument, though with planetary shields it is still questionable how much good they will actually do.
Zey: "Kal, you know that the Sith are bad news. They're evil. They've always been the cause of endless war and carnage across the galaxy."
Skirata: "Oh, that's a good one. 'My decapitations are more morally valid than your decapitations.' Only difference I can see is that they plan to end up with trillions dead, and you do-gooders manage it by accident."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
03.31.2014 , 08:06 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
I'd like to see proof, its not that I don't believe you I just can't think of 3 Sith Empire or OCF ships that act as interdictors off the top of my head...

I'm kinda sick of you overstating the Rakata tech's abilities. I'm not questioning the superiority of your ships but don't overstep your position. Warren's ships don't bring the Harrowers up in armaments like the previous matches, and the Harrower's standard armaments and shields are akin to a small Victory class (without Rakata tech) so even as powerful as they are numbers can still overwhelm them. What we have tro debate is if Warren has those numbers.

There is no way in hell Traya is good enough at foresight to see three unique and separate attacks panned by inorganic beings being launched simultaneously on her worlds and then properly order her forces to attack Geonosis and use her Shatterpoint there as well. The odds of her properly assuming that her visions forsee three different attacks as well as knowing she can move on Geonosis is beyond even her. Not to mention I question how effective her abilities will serve her against machines as there is no intent or whatnot for her to sense. Again, don't overstate her abilities here either.

I accept the stealth bomber argument, though with planetary shields it is still questionable how much good they will actually do.

The Interdictors are from her supplier.

About the Rakata ships. I do agree that Sel overinflated them. I don't see them taking the entire Black Sun Navy, but the general point is that it will take a lot of firepower to bring them down.
Added Chapter 63 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
03.31.2014 , 08:16 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post

The Interdictors are from her supplier.

About the Rakata ships. I do agree that Sel overinflated them. I don't see them taking the entire Black Sun Navy, but the general point is that it will take a lot of firepower to bring them down.
Ah, now that makes much more sense.

And admittedly so. Glad we're on the same page, I was fearful after some of the arguments she was making last match and then the open of this one... *whew*
Zey: "Kal, you know that the Sith are bad news. They're evil. They've always been the cause of endless war and carnage across the galaxy."
Skirata: "Oh, that's a good one. 'My decapitations are more morally valid than your decapitations.' Only difference I can see is that they plan to end up with trillions dead, and you do-gooders manage it by accident."

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.31.2014 , 10:07 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
Not to mention I question how effective her abilities will serve her against machines as there is no intent or whatnot for her to sense. Again, don't overstate her abilities here either.
The future of HK-47 and T3-M4 were hidden from Traya, suggesting that her foresight is incapable of reading the future or predicting the movements of mechanical beings.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.01.2014 , 01:10 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post

The Interdictors are from her supplier.

About the Rakata ships. I do agree that Sel overinflated them. I don't see them taking the entire Black Sun Navy, but the general point is that it will take a lot of firepower to bring them down.
I didn't mean in one battle, and I stick to the fact that a stealthed fleet equal in firepower to like 60 ISD's (according to Beni) would take down the Black Sun navy...
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from… save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Seeliara Sage
The Gate Crashing, Dragon Slaying, Eternal Warrior from Beyond.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.01.2014 , 01:11 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
The future of HK-47 and T3-M4 were hidden from Traya, suggesting that her foresight is incapable of reading the future or predicting the movements of mechanical beings.
It doesn't matter, the fact she can see the future of her own allies is enough.

All she'd need to see is a quick SOS message coming in from 3 commanders at once.
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from… save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Seeliara Sage
The Gate Crashing, Dragon Slaying, Eternal Warrior from Beyond.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.01.2014 , 01:19 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
There is no way in hell Traya is good enough at foresight to see three unique and separate attacks panned by inorganic beings being launched simultaneously on her worlds and then properly order her forces to attack Geonosis and use her Shatterpoint there as well. The odds of her properly assuming that her visions forsee three different attacks as well as knowing she can move on Geonosis is beyond even her. Not to mention I question how effective her abilities will serve her against machines as there is no intent or whatnot for her to sense. Again, don't overstate her abilities here either.
Just like to say, this Harrower business isn't me overstating them. We went through every argument on them last round, and beni said these Harrowers were 2-300% (or 3-400%, I forget) more effective than a normal Harrower.
With a normal harrower being the equivalent of an ISD, (Due to them serving the Same role) I stick to my belief.

And it's not like all these things will happen within 20 seconds of her declaring war. She managed to look into the future of all the exiles companions at a whim, without even being fully connected to the force.
And yes, it could be hard to sense te future of droids but it's easy for her to look into the future and see 3 fleet battles, or 3 commanders asking for reinforcements at the same time over Holo.

As for the Geonosis thing, it has no Planetary shields just shields around the factory, the only reason they weren't bombed before was because the Geonosians could defend them, but not here against stealthed ships.
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from… save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Seeliara Sage
The Gate Crashing, Dragon Slaying, Eternal Warrior from Beyond.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.01.2014 , 07:49 AM | #20
I would like to point out that as a droid neither Traya nor her assassins can use the Force to track G0-T0 in any way. She is effectively blind to all his doings, which could prove a significant advantage to him.
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
As for the Geonosis thing, it has no Planetary shields just shields around the factory, the only reason they weren't bombed before was because the Geonosians could defend them, but not here against stealthed ships.
I'm not sure what your point here is, the factories are the only things that need to be protected...