There is STILL incredible potential for SwTOR in the MMO market

gosh.. i am just hearing excuses and predictions of how no one can ever be like wow which suits wow very well.

i am also hearing people giving htemselves excuses to give up, maybe convince their investors there isn't much they can do.. which is all b/s -- no matter how detailed your analysis is or how much maths you do, you can't tell the future, you have no idea what making a serious effort will do.

you're just discouraged by the failures about you and you have begun to believe it applies to you which in turn ensures this under-achievement. TAke courage, be bold, be brave, committ your efforts, and it will turn. WoW is leading this market by strong lead because htey do the work, put in the hours and don't quit, they aren't the bravest company, they certainly don't ahve the best product.. but all the upstarts give up so soon.

If your title doens't bring in the sales you thought you have to really work hard at it for at least a year or two. The most crucial time of an MMO, is the first few periods after launch...but I am noticing game makers, get money and throw the kitchen sink at projects which they then shoot in the foot because they panic and release their product either too early or don't stick with it.

Bioware fired and probably argued with half of their staff in the crucial 6 months of the game where they shoudl have been churning out content faster than hot New York second, and planning big. But that's the past, the efforts since then have kept the game a live, but it can do so much better if you'd stop making silly excuses and hiding behind clever words and do breathtaking stuff.


ANd you the community, rather than really support your fave game, and get behind them encouraging them, you answer topics like this trying to sound clever and knowledgeable, but all you're doing is sowing doubt and unbelief, I see people do this in all walks of life, and it is killing htem literally, faith is what you need to truly live, you guys are too clever to believe in anything, even GOd, yet that is exactly what you need to do.

The only strata of life I notice this attitude is missing is at the very top, people there don't think like this or do that, those at the top and those rapidly rising to the top, get behind your developers and encourage them rather than talk sensible nonsense and defeat into them.

Believing to survive is not living, believe to live, truly live - Macetheace

What did bring you back?

This post sums up an important facet of the conversation: namely, that everyone that says "doing X will make tons of players come in" is simply stating their opinion. Because what player X wants might take away from developing something else that player Y wants. So a developer allocates their limited resources to develop that stuff that they think will yield the most return.

For example, tons of PvP players are angry that the devs have basically said "No, we're not doing that at this time" to MANY of their requests. And they're very disappointed, and swear that if PvP were improved there would be a huge influx of players. And that might be true--but spending time developing PvP might also lead to an outflow of players because time is then NOT being spent on the stuff they like. For example, players like me and my guild. We do lots of PvE and do ops 2-3 nights a week. We have a decent number of very active players, and I don't think a single one of our members have engaged in any PvP in the last month. Certainly we have not done ANY PvP as a guild as long as I've been in the guild.

Does that mean that no one likes PvP? Of course not! But it does mean that we don't, and if devs put time into developing PvP at the expense of PvE or some other features then a lot of our members might move on. Certainly I might be inclined to do so, but I hate PvP. It doesn't mean PvP is bad, it means it doesn't appeal to me so if limited time is spent developing tons of PvP at the expense of other content (which it certainly will--SWTOR certainly does not have unlimited developer resources) then I am less inclined to keep playing.

In sum, the world don't move
to the beat of just one drum
what might be right for you
might not be right for some.

Never going to happen. BioWare had their chance and they blew it. Too many bad design decisions. Cut corners. And rushing it out.

EA is NOT going to invest a crap-ton of money into the game again...

If they did it MIGHT succeed in bringing new subs but NOT in the numbers EA would want. It's a fools errand. MMO's just don't work that way. First impressions are KING. The VAST majority of those that left are NOT going to give it another chance. They never do.

It's just not going to happen. BioWare had a chance while making it the first time but kept blinders on and cut too many corners.

Hell they advertise the class stories as the selling point to this game..and they aren't even going to frigging expand on them (at least not anytime in the VERY VERY foreseeable future.)

And they continue to make bad decisions. The fact they still refuse to put in a cross-server LFG queue for PvE and PvP shows this. Is there even a game out anymore, other than SWTOR, that doesn't have cross-server queue's? (that is on multiple servers and not one mega one)

Much as I'd LOVE to be proven wrong and eat my own words....it's not going to happen. Ever.

This 100%

Its the reason the game failed in the first place, bad decisions. And it hasn't changed, they still make horrible decisions that could have been easily avoided with a little research.

Oh and the amount of delusion coming from the bioware cheerleaders in this thread is truly amazing, I saw someone actually say they don't want a certain type of person playing swtor and that losing subs didn't matter because the f2p is doing fine, lol.

GSF didn't bring back and hold anyone, It had the potential to bring back flight game people and swg jump to light speed vets but then the genius in charge decided it only needed mouse and keyboard controls, no stick or pad and those people laughed and left.

/Agree.

And it is an important fact that is lost on many active forum members. I fully support asking for things, and making suggestions and providing feedback (actual feedback, without your spleen ripped out and tossed on top). It's healthy. But many players try to pull it way beyond this... acting as though they have an equity stake in the game and can therefore dictate and demand. Waste of time, and creates needless additional drama in the forum.

If the game has truly failed as you state - then it is dead. If the game is dead, then wouldn't beating on it be the equivalent of beating on a dead horse? Necropsychopathy I think it is called.

Intelligent people don't beat on a dead anything because (a) results are minimal, and (b) they look stupid when their efforts are called out. So the game mustn't be dead ... just down. Beating a game when it's down ... nice. Maybe the game being down is a ruse. Maybe it's only mostly down, and looking for payback from unsuspecting perps duped into thinking it's down.

Or maybe this is all about a commercially sustainable compilation of 1s and 0s, where devoting oneself to defending or attacking them (or others whose opinions are contrary) ... in the grand scheme of things ... is just plain stupid.

Typical distortion of the conversation.

What was stated by one forum member was that Bioware need to do things to draw players that left the game back to the game. The irony being.. clearly they are doing that... just not to the personal tastes and satisfactions of the complainer. So the whole premise is a forum bait-and-switch in the discussion IMO.

I pointed out that players that tried the game, did not like it, and left early are "short attention span"
customers and while I am sure any company would be glad to take their money... they DO NOT represent what you design for nor are they the prime demographic to harvest more subs from. Now in fairness to these players..... a lot of them were probably not really MMO players anyway and were just surging for a KOTOR-3 style play and discard game fix. These are by definition play-and-discard players... transients to the game. And let's be realistic here.. a growing segment of the world wide MMO player base has become and continues to be pretty much consume and discard of MMOs too. It's a much more transient player base now days, with many options of MMOs to play, and the ability to play many of them in some combination of free/freemium.

Better to focus on a broad range of players and on players that actually are more interested in playing an MMO then complaining about every nuance of it 7/24 in the forum here.

And... if it's such a bad MMO.. why are you subscribing? Sincere question.

So you don't think the game failed in those first 6 months? and I never said anything about swtor being dead, you did. You can fail and not die.