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The thermite torpedo debuff


Erixion's Avatar


Erixion
03.23.2014 , 03:02 AM | #1
Hello everyone. First of all, sorry for my English, I’ll try to be as clear as possible but it is hard when you eat de l’omelette au fromage ! (and NOT omelette du fromage )

I need your knowledge about a really mysterious component to me: the thermite torpedo.
Most of the time, I like to try any component at least once, just to… You know, taste it. Well except for that poor torpedo. The moment I read the tooltip, I just couldn’t see how that thing could be useful, even after the recent range buff. That thing seems designed to be used against a ship which has been stripped of its shield … But you can’t do that in your scout if you’re at 10 000m from your opponent! I love using unusual builds as long as they allow me to contribute to the fight ... But this is waaaay to much.

But then … I read the 2.7 patchnote … And I saw that the type 2 gunship is getting that thermite torpedo. And I thought … “Hey! Why not? ”
I know I know, that Gunship is worse in almost every way compared to the type 1, but I dunno, I kinda like it. Maybe it’s because its more challenging to fly or because strikers are my favorite types of fighter (yeah I fly my type 2 GS like a striker with a railgun )… Or because the Combo “Heavy lasers + Railgun + Missile” just brings a manly tear to my eye…
I also tried the Plasma railgun on it (I use the stupidly powerful Ion+Slug on the other GS and got bored pretty fast… Wanted to try something else) and was pleasantly surprised: it’s a really good weapon. It’s just a shame that the slug cannon is better in absolutely every way … Well … Except for one thing: stripping shields!

The plasma railgun’s superior damage, Dot (prevents shields from regenerating), and the lack of shield piercing means that … This weapon might be perfect to “prepare” your target, before finishing it with a holy termite torpedo! And with the global nerf of evasive maneuvers coming, I can’t wait to try that combo… Now I can’t log in to check myself, but I remember that the thermite is supposed to apply a debuff with multiple effects on the target, and I just remeber something like armor reduction.

My question is: What does the debuff do? Do we have any concrete value? (for example, it reduces armor by how much %?)

Now you may be thinking: “Wow … That guy is getting excited by the fact that the most useless Gunship equipped with the most useless railgun is getting the most useless missile… “
But when your main ship is a charged plating Pike, you get used to people calling you crazy.
La victoire n'exige nulle explication, la défaite n'en admet aucune.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
03.23.2014 , 03:36 AM | #2
I don't think anyone would be able to answer your question, unless Devs come.

(Et c'est quoi ce délire avec l'omelette ? C'est pas la première fois que je vois cette phrase, j'ai jamais compris pourquoi)

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
03.23.2014 , 08:47 AM | #3
According to the T5 left upgrade, it deals damage over time, grants shield bleedthrough (similar to charged plating; thus, all attacks against the ship have "shield penetration"), and reduces the target's armor.

As for numbers, you're likely going to have to hit someone with it, switch to mouse mode, and hover over the tooltip. Please try to take a screenshot if you do this. Also be warned that the tooltip has a good chance at being frustratingly vague.

If it's a bunch of shield piercing, it might be worthwhile... but I'm guessing that it's closer to 30% or so (which is significant, but not really worth a four second lock time). Armor ignoring is a nice damage buff, but again, four second lock time. Damage over time prevents shields from regenerating, but with that enormous lock-on time you're hopefully hitting hull (and if you're not, well, that's what shield bleedthrough is for).

All in all, it's a theoretically nice assortment of debuffs, but the enormous lock-on time just makes it unwieldy in practical situations.

Then again, I said the same thing about sab probe before I started dying to it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
(Et c'est quoi ce délire avec l'omelette ? C'est pas la première fois que je vois cette phrase, j'ai jamais compris pourquoi)
It's just a stereotype about frenchies. Also, fromage is an excellent word (also looks like frost mage, which used to be my main).
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Erixion's Avatar


Erixion
03.24.2014 , 11:50 AM | #4
Hey guys ! Thanks for your replies, even though it's a shame that we don't know the precise numbers...

I finally had the time to see for myself, and also went to the PTS take a quick look, and noticed that the component has been redesigned, and if you ask me, it recieved one hell of a buff! Maybe I'm blind, but I don't remember seeing any mention of these changes on the PTS patchnote or in any other GS thread.
I won't create another thread because well ... It's probably the least popular component with sensor beacon and ion missile right now, but here's what I saw for those who are intrigued:

Damage
-Currently, the thermite torpedo does about 555 damage vs shields
-About 1500 damage against hull and ignore armor
-These numbers can be buffed by 5% thanks to the upgrades

-On the PTS, it does 1150 damage vs shields
-About 1750 damage against hull and ignore armor (is that even possible to withstand that ?)
-It can again be buffed by 5%

I don't know for you guys, but to my eyes, these torpedoes seem to be totally usable against a shielded target ! But wait, there's more !

Armonddd mentionned a "shield debuff". I couldn't find any evidence of such debuff on the live servers. On the PTS however, a line in the description of the power has been added:
"...the heat they generate also disrupts shield, making them less able to absorb incoming damage"
The tree skill of the weapon has been ligthly redesigned. The new last uppgrade incrases the duration of de dot, shield bleedthrough and armor debuff
But again, no real numbers ...
The presence of the dot WITHOUT taking the "plasma warhead" upgrade might explain these insanely high numbers (you know, like the current plasma railgun), but I couldn't test it on the PTS ... Not enough testers


But does that really matter ? I mean ... With these new Damage numbers alone, don't you guys think that the Gunship type 2 with thermite might finally become a threatening presence on the battlefield ? The nova/blackbolt will gain a new interesting toy ... And the support ships coming with 2.7 will also use that torpedo, which means that they may bite after all !


Oh by the way, if you wanna check for yourself the new thermite torpedo in 2.7, just go check the amazing GS builder on Dulfy's website :
http://dulfy.net/2013/11/16/swtor-galactic-starfighter/
The DPS against hull doesn't appear though... But the rest is definitely here.



Oh and I almost forgot about that omelette au fromage, here's where it comes from:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...20du%20fromage
La victoire n'exige nulle explication, la défaite n'en admet aucune.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
03.24.2014 , 02:13 PM | #5
It seems they decided to put Thermite Torpedo so that it averages to it's old value. (1150+1750)/2=1450
It's like if it was unintended that it does weak shield damage, but they decided to keep it in the end, and so they buffed it so it average to that old 1450.
So yes it's a pretty huge buff, since at worst it's as strong as a Concussion Missile. I may consider trying it.
I doubt that the Comet Breaker will suddenly become "da ship" with Thermite, but now it looks solid : 0.2 * 1750 + 830 (Proton) = 1180 hull damage. It has the potential to kill scouts. Added with a few Heavy cannon shots with 18% of by pass plus Thermite's bleedthrough, it's solid. Though, it's a bit sad that the ship almost becomes a Pike. It may work, but it has no soul.


But these numbers on Dulfy also mean that Ion has also been buffed substantially, since it shows Ion at 790 and I don't remember it being that high on live servers (535 I believe).
I don't have its shield damage on PTS, but if it is unchanged from live (1590), its damage averages to 1190 which is over Concussion (1055).
I think these numbers make sense because it means that Ion Missile has Concussion Missile's damage with a bonus of +50% or a malus of -25% depending how it's used... which is coherent with how most bonus/malus work, the malus being half of the bonus.
(Because the numbers didn't look like what I usally see, I thought that the number on Dulfy were average bewteen shield and hull damage.)

PS : I didn't know about the omelette reference... Understandable since I went to the polling station yesterday, if you know what I mean.

Gavin_Kelvar's Avatar


Gavin_Kelvar
03.24.2014 , 02:47 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Erixion View Post
And the support ships coming with 2.7 will also use that torpedo, which means that they may bite after all !
Yeah I'm seeing some good potential with the Type 3 strikers using the co-pilot bypass ability to stack with thermites. I still have mixed feelings about not having heavy cannons or concussion missiles though (both of which seem to define the striker class and provide much of it's multirole fighter versatility).

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
03.24.2014 , 03:19 PM | #7
Now I want more novadives.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>

Sindariel's Avatar


Sindariel
03.24.2014 , 03:43 PM | #8
Sounds, like they took my idea for splitting up the damage into a direct and dot damage component from my suggestion thread.

With this rework, Thermite Torpedoes could become a serious thread to bombers and gunships.
And the new T3 scout might be less crappy.

QuinMantha's Avatar


QuinMantha
03.24.2014 , 03:58 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Erixion View Post
With these new Damage numbers alone, don't you guys think that the Gunship type 2 with thermite might finally become a threatening presence on the battlefield ?
Already, my devious little Gunship mind is devising new horrors to unleash upon you zippy little fodder-flies! Muwahaha!

Also, curious thought entering my head...not a Gunship, but a Missile Boat? No Railguns, just torpedoes? Hmm...I wonder how effective that could be.

Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Also, fromage is an excellent word (also looks like frost mage, which used to be my main).
A-HAAAA!! No wonder you complain all the time!
Ebon Hawkin' And Totally Rockin'

- Cmdr. Rhint Mantha, Jedi Knight, <Blue Squadron>
- Mjr. Galbaldy Mantha, Trooper
- Tsun'pahn, Bounty Hunter and Smuggler

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
03.24.2014 , 05:18 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by QuinMantha View Post
A-HAAAA!! No wonder you complain all the time!
No, no, I never PvP'd.

Unless you count that time a level skull warrior attacked me in Un'goro because I was killing the town guards. I thought he was another guard, so I mounted up and ran away. I didn't realize he was an actual player until I was asking myself why he wasn't leashing.

Turned out he was in full +spirit armor. Easy kill.
Space Ace of <Death Squadron>, <Black Squadron>, <Eclipse Squadron>, and <solo da>