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Petition: Take steps to remove bias to snipers in end game raid groups

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Petition: Take steps to remove bias to snipers in end game raid groups

Helmholtzz's Avatar


Helmholtzz
03.12.2014 , 10:41 AM | #1
End game raid groups especially the progression groups are heavily biased towards snipers. At least 1 sniper is guaranteed in every raid group while 2 snipers are also very common. This shows a huge bias of raid groups towards snipers. The principal reason is the the prevalent raid wide AoE damage and the sniper's unique ability to mitigate that.

Under these circumstances what are the dev's plans to give the other ranged classes a fighting chance to get picked in a progression raid group?

An easy solution is to put a 3 min raid wide lockout on the sniper shield as it has been done for bloodthirst.
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Rufussay's Avatar


Rufussay
03.12.2014 , 10:51 AM | #2
Solution: Eliminate snipers' ability to deal competent AOE damage?

Helmholtzz's Avatar


Helmholtzz
03.12.2014 , 11:02 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Rufussay View Post
Solution: Eliminate snipers' ability to deal competent AOE damage?
I believe that is taken care of, but the situation is still the same. Raid groups in PTS testing NiM DF have at least 1 and in most cases 2 snipers. Some even had 3 snipers in the a group of 8.
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Instead of loving your enemies - treat your friends a little better.
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Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
03.12.2014 , 11:08 AM | #4
Classes are inbalanced in pve bc BW is focussed on getting pvp balanced.

PT DD's have less dps than a marauder. Why would a raid take a pt then?

Snipers have a benefical buff for the raid group. Why would you replace that with a class without a beneficial buff?

Ranged dps is in most cases better than melee dps ( at operation bosses). Why wouldnt you take only ranged dps + 1 marauder for bloodthirst?

Why doesnt BW erase all classes and create 1 new class that can tank/heal and dps. No more unbalancing and whine.

BTW: Sniper have been nerfed to the ground with that orbital strike nerf. Lossing roughly 400dps in most single target fights. I parsed 3800dps before the nerf now i am at 3480dps.Snipers arent the best dps nor the best aoe's so they get a beneficial buff to compensate that. Without their shields, there would only be sorcerers + 1 marauder in topraids.
Revanchist

Helmholtzz's Avatar


Helmholtzz
03.12.2014 , 11:26 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
BTW: Sniper have been nerfed to the ground with that orbital strike nerf. Lossing roughly 400dps in most single target fights. I parsed 3800dps before the nerf now i am at 3480dps.Snipers arent the best dps nor the best aoe's so they get a beneficial buff to compensate that. Without their shields, there would only be sorcerers + 1 marauder in topraids.
So according to you, snipers are being taken in raid groups for the wrong reason. A DPS is being taken to help out the healers and in doing so the sorcs are missing out on the action as the pyro mercs are forcing their way in with higher DPS. I agree with you.

This needs to change. Snipers should not be taken over sages or mercs. They should not have an ability which while stacked provides significant aid to the survivability of the raid. Give an equal chance to the other ranged classes to make it into the raid group.
Dead on Arrival Begeren Colony
Ascension Jedi Covenant
Instead of loving your enemies - treat your friends a little better.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
03.12.2014 , 11:57 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
BTW: Sniper have been nerfed to the ground with that orbital strike nerf. Lossing roughly 400dps in most single target fights. I parsed 3800dps before the nerf now i am at 3480dps.Snipers arent the best dps nor the best aoe's so they get a beneficial buff to compensate that. Without their shields, there would only be sorcerers + 1 marauder in topraids.
There are numerous snipers who parse in the high 3.7-3.8 range. That's ahead of every other ranged spec except for Pyro Mercs, and ahead of everything (non-Gunslinger) in the Republic faction (due to the current faction-specific imbalance of Pyro vs Assault). If you're only parsing 3480, you're probably doing something wrong (unless you're talking about Engineering without roll, in which case you're probably doing something very right).

Utility should never come at the expense of DPS, nor should DPS come at the expense of utility. They are two separate balance axes. Sorcs, Mercs and Snipers should all do roughly the same DPS levels, adjusted up or down depending on factors like burst, setup time, AoE potential, etc. They should also all provide different, but similarly valuable utility.

I actually don't feel that Sniper utility is as godlike as most people think it is. The shield is great, yes, but it's only available once every 3 minutes. In terms of a damage reduction benefit to the raid, an assassin tank using Phase Walk intelligently is almost twice as valuable over the course of a fight, and you don't see anyone complaining about that utility being OP (though there's no question that the sniper shield is superior during short-duration burst phases). The other two ranged specs have a lot going for them in terms of utility. Mercs have strong cooldowns, better mobility, heavy armor, off-cleanse, off-rez and off-heals. Sorcs have the best mobility of the three ranged specs, sustainable off-heals, off-cleanse, off-rez and the best AoE of the ranged specs outside of Engineering. In other words, it's not really that Snipers are overpowered in the utility department, it's just that their utilities are overvalued.

I'm not sure how to fix that problem, honestly. Nerfs to things like Ballistic Shield are a dangerous path to tread, since then you're effectively disrupting balance in order to force the metagame to consider alternative options.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
03.12.2014 , 12:07 PM | #7
Forgot to meantion that my sniper isnt bis equipped, playing lethality with ambush + series of shots as a filler between the 2x culls
Revanchist

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.12.2014 , 12:19 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Helmholtzz View Post
An easy solution is to put a 3 min raid wide lockout on the sniper shield as it has been done for bloodthirst.
I don't see any problem with this solution.

It doesn't nerf the ability, it just means you don't get benefits for stacking the same class multiple times.

Helmholtzz's Avatar


Helmholtzz
03.12.2014 , 12:36 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
snip
You may be correct about the sin tank buff but at phases like the last one of dread council or brontes, chaining the shield makes the damage much easier to deal with. One ballistic shield alone is not a big issue but chaining the shield makes it more valuable.

The shield lockout will work exactly as the bloodthirst lockout. Its not anything new. BW have already implemented something like this.
Dead on Arrival Begeren Colony
Ascension Jedi Covenant
Instead of loving your enemies - treat your friends a little better.
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ontee's Avatar


ontee
03.12.2014 , 03:16 PM | #10
Don't know if you noticed, but all the really top hardcore guilds don't ever take specific class to raid, its all player that matters.