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Mach 5 Massacre - In-Depth Marauder Guide

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sith Warrior > Marauder
Mach 5 Massacre - In-Depth Marauder Guide

Kibaken's Avatar


Kibaken
12.31.2011 , 08:36 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by Korvad View Post
Kiba, you said ataru's proc and rupture's tick are considered force attacks and can be affected by Malice talent.

I don't think so. Can you elaborate on the methodology that allows you to make such assesments ?
I actually had to do some digging to answer the question before. For the purposes of this - and there's really no other resource - I'm going to quote the sithwarrior.com's breakdown of what is a weapon and what is a Force attack, which can be found, finalized, in post #80, here.

I have no knowledge of any other resources that say otherwise, however if you have any feel free to link them. Unfortunately what constitutes a Force attack isn't directly specified in the tool-tips.
The Aurion Legacy

Nylos Aevir Salrik Lyrax | Malkros Uhriel Flamel Kemarov
Prophecy of the Five

Basek's Avatar


Basek
01.01.2012 , 01:46 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by Kibaken View Post
Abilities considered "Force" abilities:

Force Scream
Ataru Form procs
Smash
Savage Kick
Pommel Strike
Cloak of Pain procs
Force Choke
Rupture (ticks)


The fact that it affects the Ataru procs is reason enough to get Malice. The other cloak abilities are considered filler and, as I said, definitely have their uses in a raid environment, however the filler points come down to personal preference.
Thank you for the response, I had no idea Ataru form procs were force attacks that does change a lot. =)
Tolbi 50 Marauder
<Big Crits> Of Sen'jin-US & Saber of Exar Kun
www.bigcrits.com

SubSenix's Avatar


SubSenix
01.01.2012 , 02:05 AM | #103
Quote:
Accuracy to 110% > Power > (Accuracy over 110%) > Crit > Surge
So how much is this correct?
Read a lot of threads in the last days and all of them say Crit comes second.

Im doing pretty good with the Power favoring and all that stuff but i want to be clear about it,probably like everyone else.
There is another "Guide" Thread on this board saying the Rage build is the best with exactly those stats.

Well for now i won't change cause i love your guide and it works for me.
Im just curious.

Kibaken's Avatar


Kibaken
01.01.2012 , 02:30 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by SubSenix View Post
So how much is this correct?
Read a lot of threads in the last days and all of them say Crit comes second.

Im doing pretty good with the Power favoring and all that stuff but i want to be clear about it,probably like everyone else.
There is another "Guide" Thread on this board saying the Rage build is the best with exactly those stats.

Well for now i won't change cause i love your guide and it works for me.
Im just curious.
Accuracy to cap is definitely first, followed by Power for Carnage. Whether or not Accuracy over the cap or Crit comes third is up to the math to solve.

The main problem I'm seeing is that our best in slot gear, so to speak, has no comparable mods to switch in and out. If we could craft or get mods/enhancements from drops to truly min/max our best stats it would be a different story.

Since, to my current knowledge, we can't, chances are we're going to just keep our PvE set as is with little to no switching in and out of mods.


As for the actual stat weights themselves, there's no hard numbers to go off of because combat logs and parsing aren't currently available. The stat weights I have for Carnage are based around what is currently known/theorized about Accuracy and its caps at this time. Without said hard numbers it's very hard to put precise weights on everything, therefore they're really just pulled from my logic about how the combat for Carnage currently works (since one of our abilities is an instant crit Crit's weight is devalued, etc).

Even when stat weights are pulled from parses when they become available, if we don't have the ability to get hard-mode operation tier mods/enhancements elsewhere we're going to be stuck with what's stock, leaving stat weights nearly completely useless at that point.


As for which spec is better, again, without hard numbers it's hard to really say which is pulling top DPS. Having played Carnage and Rage quite a bit so far in both PvE and PvP I can say personally Rage's burstiness, while fun, makes it feel a lot slower than Carnage for me. That's in no way saying Rage isn't as good, but again, without parses it's hard to say.

I'm going to assume, since BioWare has a lot of testing meters that aren't available to us, all three specs are going to be close enough in DPS to the point where it won't matter which spec you go. That's really the type of balance system they're working towards and I will expect to see nothing more than a 1-3% DPS difference between all 3 specs, which to me is negligible to the point of irrelevance.
The Aurion Legacy

Nylos Aevir Salrik Lyrax | Malkros Uhriel Flamel Kemarov
Prophecy of the Five

JCupp's Avatar


JCupp
01.01.2012 , 06:02 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Kibaken View Post
Accuracy to cap is definitely first, followed by Power for Carnage. Whether or not Accuracy over the cap or Crit comes third is up to the math to solve.

The main problem I'm seeing is that our best in slot gear, so to speak, has no comparable mods to switch in and out. If we could craft or get mods/enhancements from drops to truly min/max our best stats it would be a different story.

Since, to my current knowledge, we can't, chances are we're going to just keep our PvE set as is with little to no switching in and out of mods.


As for the actual stat weights themselves, there's no hard numbers to go off of because combat logs and parsing aren't currently available. The stat weights I have for Carnage are based around what is currently known/theorized about Accuracy and its caps at this time. Without said hard numbers it's very hard to put precise weights on everything, therefore they're really just pulled from my logic about how the combat for Carnage currently works (since one of our abilities is an instant crit Crit's weight is devalued, etc).

Even when stat weights are pulled from parses when they become available, if we don't have the ability to get hard-mode operation tier mods/enhancements elsewhere we're going to be stuck with what's stock, leaving stat weights nearly completely useless at that point.


As for which spec is better, again, without hard numbers it's hard to really say which is pulling top DPS. Having played Carnage and Rage quite a bit so far in both PvE and PvP I can say personally Rage's burstiness, while fun, makes it feel a lot slower than Carnage for me. That's in no way saying Rage isn't as good, but again, without parses it's hard to say.

I'm going to assume, since BioWare has a lot of testing meters that aren't available to us, all three specs are going to be close enough in DPS to the point where it won't matter which spec you go. That's really the type of balance system they're working towards and I will expect to see nothing more than a 1-3% DPS difference between all 3 specs, which to me is negligible to the point of irrelevance.
I am curious if any of this is the same for Carnage PvP.

Do you really need 110% accuracy for PvP as well?

I played around with my mods from my level 40 furious gear, and replaced most of the crit for power, and I seem too be doing a little less dmg than normal.

SubSenix's Avatar


SubSenix
01.01.2012 , 08:55 AM | #106
Ok thank you very much!

Kibaken's Avatar


Kibaken
01.01.2012 , 01:01 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by JCupp View Post
I am curious if any of this is the same for Carnage PvP.

Do you really need 110% accuracy for PvP as well?

I played around with my mods from my level 40 furious gear, and replaced most of the crit for power, and I seem too be doing a little less dmg than normal.
Accuracy is both WoW's hit and expertise rolled into one. Your specials will always hit, however players have a base 5% defense and any tank character will more than likely be stacking defense so your abilities will be parried/deflected quite often with them.

As I said in my lengthy post above, I don't think stat weights will matter all too much because there's only one group of BIS items - the ones from the commendation vendor. If there's no way to get equivalent commendations we'll end up losing out on stats - and a metric **** ton of credits - in order to try to min/max stats with lesser enhancements/mods.

IIRC there is quite a bit of Accuracy on the PvP gear set.
The Aurion Legacy

Nylos Aevir Salrik Lyrax | Malkros Uhriel Flamel Kemarov
Prophecy of the Five

Alwaid's Avatar


Alwaid
01.01.2012 , 01:05 PM | #108
Really good guide! I was looking forward to something like this. I can't wait to see your annihilation guide posted (it's my spec).

Also, when you are done with all 3 specs, maybe you should also consider creating a juggernaut guide.

Happy new year everyone!

JCupp's Avatar


JCupp
01.01.2012 , 05:39 PM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by Kibaken View Post
Accuracy is both WoW's hit and expertise rolled into one. Your specials will always hit, however players have a base 5% defense and any tank character will more than likely be stacking defense so your abilities will be parried/deflected quite often with them.

As I said in my lengthy post above, I don't think stat weights will matter all too much because there's only one group of BIS items - the ones from the commendation vendor. If there's no way to get equivalent commendations we'll end up losing out on stats - and a metric **** ton of credits - in order to try to min/max stats with lesser enhancements/mods.

IIRC there is quite a bit of Accuracy on the PvP gear set.
Thanks for the reply.

evolart's Avatar


evolart
01.01.2012 , 07:28 PM | #110
Sticky this!!