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Threat mechanics on Raptus

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Threat mechanics on Raptus

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
03.07.2014 , 01:15 AM | #1
So I wanted to ask about the threat mechanics on Raptus. I have tanked it multiple times, often with the same cotank as tonight, and while sometimes a pit patchy, it was never a huge issue. But tonight, for whatever reason, we could not get through it.

Here is the log http://www.torparse.com/a/612675 according to which I am generating negative threat =D

The set up was, the cotank (Guardian) tanks it in phase one (he has better gear). After both challenges I would taunt the boss, take any Driving Thrust he may do, while the other tank gets in position and taunts him away (by this time everybody should be back from challenges). From phase 2 onward, we would swap after the other tank gets knocked up, with me just Holding the Line and the Guardian avoiding the knock backs by leaping someone. (I could avoid them too, but I have noticed that I often get knocked back even though I stand behind him so the healers agreed that the 12k is the lesser evil.).

The problem I had tonight, was that after I get knocked up, and the other tank takes him, I would then leap back to him or even just walk close by and Raptus would immediately switch back to me which cleaved the raid and killed a DPS.

I talked about this with other tanks in my guild and apparently my threat is suspended when I am knocked up, so the other tanks taunt does not really count or something, I dunno. I have also noticed I get a buff/debuff called focused defence when I am up.

Any insight is welcomed.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
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OMGITSJAD's Avatar


OMGITSJAD
03.07.2014 , 02:18 AM | #2
One of the other tanks in my guild theorycrafted what happens with Raptus when you get sent up and it has helped us significantly with this.

What he discovered is that, basically what happens when Raptus sends you up is he throws you so far away that you are out of his threat table, however, you do not lose whatever threat you had. So basically imagine whoever is maintanking the boss has, say 50,000 threat at that moment they are sent up. You only have 30,000(these numbers are arbitrary). You taunt, pick up the boss, and keep his aggro for 6 seconds but do not exceed the 50k threat that the other tank had. Then, the tank comes back down, and leaps back to the boss. Immediately Raptus refocuses on the tank that was just sent up, because he still technically has higher threat than you, even though you just taunted.

To counteract this, what you need to do is whoever has the boss must single taunt on cooldown, at least until after the 2nd challenge. But, most importantly, when one of the tanks gets sent up and the other tank taunts, once the tank that was in the air returns to the ground, they must call this out and have the tank on the boss use their AOE taunt. This way they will exceed whatever threat the other tank had and Raptus will not suddenly swap targets as soon as the other tank returns/the 2nd taunt wears off. Another precaution you can use if even that doesn't work is have the tank that returns drop their threat after your AOE taunt, though this is highly unlikely to be necessary seeing as ever since I was told this information, I haven't had the Raptus switching issue since, unless of course me or my cotank didn't do the AOE taunt.

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
03.07.2014 , 02:29 AM | #3
So since he loses threat on me when I am up does he then automatically switch to the other tank (i.e. second highest threat), so that way I can only have the cotank taunt once I am back down, so he builds on my threat. Sure Raptus may still switch to me but at least the other tank will have taunt ready.

Reason why I am asking is because I have noticed getting knocked back more often than 45s.

I have also never had him switch back to the cotank after my taunt, and I did it right after he got thrown. Maybe the fact that VG taunt has a delay worked in my advantage there.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
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OMGITSJAD's Avatar


OMGITSJAD
03.07.2014 , 02:53 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
So since he loses threat on me when I am up does he then automatically switch to the other tank (i.e. second highest threat), so that way I can only have the cotank taunt once I am back down, so he builds on my threat. Sure Raptus may still switch to me but at least the other tank will have taunt ready.

Reason why I am asking is because I have noticed getting knocked back more often than 45s.
Um...I think so. The tank on Raptus taunting on cooldown and you picking up a good chunk of that threat whenever the other tank goes up should leave you in the 2nd threat slot so long as you weren't teleported away, especially if you also then taunt on cooldown because you should have a hold of him for a bit. If not, tell your DPS to drop threat on cooldown.

If by knocked back you mean getting hit by the huge purple fan that Raptus places, that's probably more of a slow computer loading/online game problem than you or the game. One thing you can do is pop hydraulic overrides(Hold the Line) and you will not get tossed back from the big purple fan move if you react a little late to it. If you cannot do this, run past the boss and jump as soon as you pass him. This will cause a server-client update, telling the server where your position is. Basically sometimes when you walk past something, it looks to you like you're like 5 meters past it, however, the server is lagging behind a tiny bit and thinks you are still in the purple fan. However, if you jump, the server updates and knows you are actually outside of the AOE. This is not very noticeable outside of instances where there are big AOE's like this and Corrupter Zero's Anti-Gravity Field, but becomes a big problem during them.

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
03.07.2014 , 03:07 AM | #5
A tank must not stand behind raptus. You setup should stand like a triangle. Tank A on the left south corner, Tank B right south corner ( there is a square on the ground use it for orientation. The rest of the raid stands near the throne. So whenever raptus switches his aggro on the other tank his cleaves dont hit the raid. Another thing is, that raptus has a aggro reset after each Challenge. You have to do a tauntrotation in order to maintain aggro, otherwise the player who kited him during the challenge might get aggro. Dodging the cleaves of raptus should be mandatory, bc when your hit you are pushbacked and out of reach for the healers, you have to run back, making the boss turn while you run back to the tankplace. During that time every cleave or whatsover could hit the raid. Therefore when you see the big cleave jump through the boss and swap tanklocation with the other tank ---> Tank A south left corner, Tank B south right corner. Tank A has the boss. Boss does his cleave. Tank A runs through boss. Tank A now south right corner, Tank B south left corner and so on. You can also make Tank B taunt during the cleave.
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Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
03.07.2014 , 03:35 AM | #6
Ye the Force Wave is not an issue, Hold The Line/Guardian Leap/Force Speed sorts it out pretty well.

The threat resetting explains the massive drops on the log.

Another problem was that we recently merged guilds and had completely different positioning for DPS, but that will get sorted out over time. It was just really annoying when I'm walking into position and get threat and the way he turns he plants his cone on the raid (I dunno why the DPS was there wasn't really looking at where they were until the last pull.)
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
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Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
03.07.2014 , 08:11 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
A tank must not stand behind raptus. You setup should stand like a triangle. Tank A on the left south corner, Tank B right south corner ( there is a square on the ground use it for orientation. The rest of the raid stands near the throne. So whenever raptus switches his aggro on the other tank his cleaves dont hit the raid. Another thing is, that raptus has a aggro reset after each Challenge. You have to do a tauntrotation in order to maintain aggro, otherwise the player who kited him during the challenge might get aggro. Dodging the cleaves of raptus should be mandatory, bc when your hit you are pushbacked and out of reach for the healers, you have to run back, making the boss turn while you run back to the tankplace. During that time every cleave or whatsover could hit the raid. Therefore when you see the big cleave jump through the boss and swap tanklocation with the other tank ---> Tank A south left corner, Tank B south right corner. Tank A has the boss. Boss does his cleave. Tank A runs through boss. Tank A now south right corner, Tank B south left corner and so on. You can also make Tank B taunt during the cleave.
Tanking front-back is fine, it keeps Force Exhaustion in a very predictable location and keeps the two cleave zones pointed away from both the entrance and the throne areas, which makes life easier for the rest of the raid. The ranged folks can just park on the throne and do their thing, and people can come back from the bridge without having to worry about where the edges of cleave zones are.

Quite honestly, how you tank it is relatively small potatoes for Raptus. It's a test of raid awareness and coordination more than anything. Even with Raptus' occasional threat oddities, he should be ping-ponging between tanks if anything, not the rest of the raid. So long as the rest of the group isn't taking unnecessary damage, is passing challenges, and is killing him consistently, the exact positioning doesn't really matter. Everyone just needs to be on the same page and cognizant of positioning throughout the fight.
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AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
03.07.2014 , 08:21 AM | #8
Problem is even with positioning and ping-ponging him between tanks with all taunts available so that threat goes into millions he still sometimes randomly will switch to someone or do the cleave opposite way to the telegraph or one of the tanks will explode (in 16-man). I have been killing him 3-4 times every week for weeks as all 3 roles and rarely I have seen a clean kill with no deaths. In our progression group some weeks he put up more of a fight then the council. I believe it's just buggy this fight and that is most of the problem.

There are 2 fights in current tier that in my experience give problems even to overgeared and overpowered skilled groups - Raptus and Brontes.
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Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
03.07.2014 , 08:54 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by AAAAzrael View Post
There are 2 fights in current tier that in my experience give problems even to overgeared and overpowered skilled groups - Raptus and Brontes.
I agree, Council is an issue of getting the strat down and from then on it is fairly straightforward. Brontes requires supreme coordination and is pretty much is not possible to carry anybody on 8 man (DPS and healing checks are easier on 16). Zero and Raptus are just beyond annoying.
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Leafy_Bug's Avatar


Leafy_Bug
03.07.2014 , 08:59 AM | #10
If you do this amount of threat on him, he will even chase you after you teleport!