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Bloodmark/Searpoint feedback


The_Raven_Lord's Avatar


The_Raven_Lord
03.05.2014 , 12:17 AM | #1
For the record, I haven't been able to test these things out because there aren't any GSF games going on the PTR.

So I'll just have to look at it on paper.. which is undoubtedly how most of us will get to see them until they go live and actually get tested.



PRIMARY WEAPONS
Nothing spectacular here, all standards. Rapid-fire Laser Cannons, Light Laser Cannons, and Laser Cannons.

SECONDARY WEAPONS

This is where these scouts have their true potential.

Ion Missles - Oh yeah! Very nice.

EMP Missles - VERY VERY NICE! Finally a Scout with proper Anti-Bomber tools!

Thermite Torpedoes - Meh...

ENGINES

This is where things start to become really lackluster.

Power Dive - "I love to crash into stuff or go nowhere fast!"

Interdiction Drive - Errr.... right. Why exactly? Doesn't break missile locks or evades locked on missiles. Bombers already don't do this, why would anyone think a Scout would want to?

Snap Turn - I guess this is ok... I guess.... turn into your attackers and afterburn the hell out of there until you're out of engine power or reach the safety of a nice big rock or satellite to fly around until you get dizzy. Because... throwing up is so much fun!

Koiogran Turn - The favorite of beginner Strike Pilots who don't yet know that Barrel Roll is their best chance of getting to the other side of the map sometime this week, if perhaps not today. It has also been the death of many unfortunate pilots who've tried to evade a missile lock while flying under a satellite.

Systems

And now, by sacrificing everything a scout is suppose to do well, we get to what this particular scout is suppose to be doing well. Support...

"Ladies and gentlemen, we have thrown out the tried and true systems such as Booster Recharge, EMP Field, and Blaster Overcharge. We left in Targeting Telemetry though just to see who's going to try and build this thing for actual combat instead of keeping it as a nice spectator seat!"

Combat Command - Increases the weapon power and accuracy of everyone on your team who's fortunate enough to stay inside of 5000 meters of you by 10% for 20 seconds! Also, by the time they realize the real threat is 15000 meters away and they all barrel roll away from you to go engage that threat, they'll leave you behind to die in seconds unless you can find cover quickly enough! Because.. we all know effective space fighter combat should be a game of hide and seek.

Tensor Field - Because keeping up with your team mates and enemies has been made difficult enough for you, here you can ensure that your enemies will want to boost as far away from you as possible while a Gunship picks you off... what was this thing suppose to do again?

Sensor Beacon - Because drones and mines last so long against intelligent opposition, let's just give them one more nice stationary thing to fire AoE Ion Rail Guns at.

Targeting telemetry - YAY! Something not useless on a useless scout!

Shields

Shield Projector - "Hmm... something to make me useful to my team while also making me missile fodder..."

Distortion Field - Well, at least they don't totally hate me.

Repair Drone - See Shield Projector. Also see Sensor Beacon.

Sensors
All standard, nothing remarkable.

Reactor
Standard set of choices...

Thrusters
We had to take these out to make room for... what exactly?

Armor
Standard set of choices for a scout.

Capacitor
Standard choices.



So the Tier 3 Scout is a support fighter that will have a very hard time actually lending any support because it'll just be a flying bullseye. No thrusters for faster power regeneration or more endurance for getting out of trouble. No booster recharge to save you when you get hit by the Ion Rail Guns... no barrel roll to actually get out of the Gunship's line of fire in any sort of timely manner.

So what's this thing suppose to be good for? Raising the enemy team's kill count? I don't see this thing being deadly even in the hands of the top elite of pilots. It's certainly not for the beginners, or intermediates, or... seriously, who's this thing for?
Currently in an Imperial rehabilitation facility receiving treatment for WoW addiction.

ShadowsNIte's Avatar


ShadowsNIte
03.05.2014 , 12:58 AM | #2
I can see making the strike into a tank for sat guarding, but the bomber simply does it better. May just go the way of the Comet Breaker.
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The_Raven_Lord's Avatar


The_Raven_Lord
03.05.2014 , 02:38 AM | #3
I haven't spoken about the Strike fighter because, I don't have nearly enough hours in one to really understand the wants and needs of a Strike Fighter pilot.

Now I suppose I should describe what I think the T3 Scout should actually be, instead of whatever it's trying to be.

Honestly, I say forget the whole concept of a "Support Fighter" and just have this third tier of Scout be like the others with a different configuration for combat.

Drop the support fields and give it booster recharge and blaster over charge as options. No need for EMP because it's packing the EMP missiles. Just, drop Thermite Torpedoes and give it Cluster missiles instead.

On the matter of Engines, just put Barrel Roll and Retro thrusters into the mix. Nobody wants or likes Power Dive, and nobody in his right mind will use Interdiction Drive.

For the shield options.... whatever. Everyone's going to use Distortion Field regardless, some people like Quick Charge Shields and they have their merits, but you can leave the other two options because I suppose it'll fill a nice little niche, and some really good players can evade missiles with just engines and an obstacle course. (I'm not one of them btw.)

Thrusters... for the love of all that's good and holy, give it thrusters!

Something between a Blackbolt and Sting, able to play like either, with different offensive options provided by the choices of missiles will make this perfect! It isn't a Sting because it doesn't have the Burst Cannons or Quad Laser, but it isn't a Blackbolt because it's packing some seriously versatile Missile Power.

These options I've laid out has the tools to set up for dog fighting(Cluster Missiles), dislodging bombers(EMP Missiles), and hampering gunships(Ion Missiles).

It'll fit right in with the role a Scout was intended for. Not, whatever this thing was trying to be but will fail horribly at like the Dustmaker/Comet Breaker like the poster above me pointed out.

Anyway...

If you want a sense for how this scout will play as it currently is, join a regular pug game.

Fly a Blackbolt with Sensor Beacon or Targeting Telemetry.

Distortion Field is OK, but if you want a sense of what it will be like without it, don't use it.

Mount either Power Dive, Koiogran Turn, or Snap Turn.

Mount Turing Thrusters without any upgrades to it if you can. I know, you might think "But Tensor Field!" and I say BUT NOTHING! You want to get a sense of what it'll be like with no thrusters.

Stick with the "pack" of scouts and Strike Fighters in the melee as if you're trying to give them the buffs.

Try not to die for the whole game while still contributing some damage and kills.

That's what it will be like for a Bloodmark.
Currently in an Imperial rehabilitation facility receiving treatment for WoW addiction.

MystbladeWA's Avatar


MystbladeWA
03.05.2014 , 05:19 AM | #4
If you are going to release a new 'class' in any game, you need it to be unique. You cannot simply trundle out a beige version of existing classes and expect it to fly.

They needed a unique style class, I think they were going for the archetypal 'Bard' style class here. As much as it can be achieved in GSF anyway.

Am I impressed? No

Will I play one? No

But I really do not think that they could, or should have just released a mashup of the Sting/Blackbolt with a new skin. Some people might play this and like it. Additionally, if they are going for the whole 'Bard' thing, then at least it gives them an avenue to improve it.

- Wider range on debuffs/buffs
- Drones that have mutliple or rotational debuffs/buffs
- Powerful targeted debuffs/buffs within the ship.
Etc.
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The_Raven_Lord's Avatar


The_Raven_Lord
03.05.2014 , 07:43 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by MystbladeWA View Post
If you are going to release a new 'class' in any game, you need it to be unique. You cannot simply trundle out a beige version of existing classes and expect it to fly.
Errr... Scouts kind of are a class of ship.

Bombers
Gunships
Scouts
Strike Fighters

Those are ship classes. Each one has a unique role already. If they added these in as a "Support" class, it'd make sense. Still be really bad, but make sense.

Right now, you have two kinds of Scots

Blackbolt / Novadive - I guess 'jack of all trades'

Sting / Flashfire - The best Close quarters combat dog fighter.

And now we introduce...

Bloodmark / Spearpoint - All the weaknesses of a Scout, and none of the strengths. Tries to be a mid-range combat specialist but falls short on actual combat abilities. Provides buffs to everyone in close range but can never show itself in the open for fear of being picked off by an Ion Rail Gun.
Currently in an Imperial rehabilitation facility receiving treatment for WoW addiction.

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
03.05.2014 , 08:37 AM | #6
I concur with all the OP's points. Though I suspect the command support abilities only require allies to be close at the time of casting, it is still going to be very hard to use, especially in Deathmatch where people are not normally clustered.
The offense command ability doesn't give anything amazing (everyone is already stacked for accuracy, and evasion is no longer the boogie man it once was).


Tensor field is useful at exactly one moment: the start of a Domination match, when you can hit all your team with it and then watch them zoom away from you. Any other time, there is no natural intersection of a group of allies being clustered and needing to get somewhere slightly faster. I could see it being used to mount a quick counter attack on an enemy sat, but that would require VOIP to time in an advantageous way.

So maybe there is a use in Domination, but I see no point in flying this in Deathmatch. It lacks the offensive and defensive power of a Sting, and it lacks the mobility that lets a Blackbolt do effective hit-and-fade.

I fear this fighter is going to cause more Imperial loses though, because less discerning pilots will use the Bloodmark simply because it is the coolest and most iconic looking Imperial ship. The Republic got lucky that the Spearpoint looks like crap
Shayd/Callem - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
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The_Raven_Lord's Avatar


The_Raven_Lord
03.05.2014 , 08:52 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
I concur with all the OP's points. Though I suspect the command support abilities only require allies to be close at the time of casting, it is still going to be very hard to use, especially in Deathmatch where people are not normally clustered.
The offense command ability doesn't give anything amazing (everyone is already stacked for accuracy, and evasion is no longer the boogie man it once was).


Tensor field is useful at exactly one moment: the start of a Domination match, when you can hit all your team with it and then watch them zoom away from you. Any other time, there is no natural intersection of a group of allies being clustered and needing to get somewhere slightly faster. I could see it being used to mount a quick counter attack on an enemy sat, but that would require VOIP to time in an advantageous way.

So maybe there is a use in Domination, but I see no point in flying this in Deathmatch. It lacks the offensive and defensive power of a Sting, and it lacks the mobility that lets a Blackbolt do effective hit-and-fade.

I fear this fighter is going to cause more Imperial loses though, because less discerning pilots will use the Bloodmark simply because it is the coolest and most iconic looking Imperial ship. The Republic got lucky that the Spearpoint looks like crap.
Thank you for understanding and articulating my thoughts in a better way than I ever could have.

The part I underlined, will be the biggest problem. That's why this thing needs the option to be built with the mobility of the other scouts, and some teeth.
Currently in an Imperial rehabilitation facility receiving treatment for WoW addiction.

Elly_Dawn's Avatar


Elly_Dawn
03.05.2014 , 09:04 AM | #8
this is pretty much the point i was trying to get across in another thread on the same subject of the Bloodmark... as a support scout it is extremely limited because of the short range of its effects in comparison to it's reduced speed and maneuverability... which honestly makes zero sense in the ships design, considering the Bloodmark is packing 4 engines by default on the same frame as the Blackbolt you'd figure it to be faster... maybe they should swap the bodies of the Blackbolt & Bloodmark out so it makes aesthetic sense, considering Blackbolt is still the fastest ship on the field...

another gripe i have is with the lack of Rocket Pods, thus making it even slower, i hate anything having a lock-on time in a game this fast-paced, but that's a personal preference, i honestly believe Rocket Pods should be a choice on all ships... they really gotta get over this offering us 4 choices per part, as we see from the Bloodmark it leads down a path of useless mediocrity... it's like they threw all the stuff nobody (figuratively) uses into a single ship, hoping to see it get some use, but it's not likely to get used much because of the serious gimping to it's speed and maneuverability...
if all the great fashion designers have gone over to the Darkside, then i will too...
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The_Raven_Lord's Avatar


The_Raven_Lord
03.05.2014 , 09:15 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Elly_Dawn View Post
it's like they threw all the stuff nobody (figuratively) uses into a single ship, hoping to see it get some use, but it's not likely to get used much because of the serious gimping to it's speed and maneuverability...
Interdiction Drive
Sensor Beacon
EMP Missles
Ion Missles
Thermite Torpedoes

To name a few examples, this is exactly what they did. They even gave the unused Comet Breaker / Dustmaker those Thermite Torps...

Though, the missile load out choice does give this thing the potential to fill a very useful combat role for the team which is otherwise neglected because Strike Fighters have much harder hitting missiles as options, so these choices tend to be neglected on those ships.

The Interdiction Drive doesn't get used on Bombers because the other choices Hyperspace beacon and the converter thingy are much more useful for the defensive role they're designed for, and the versatility role they can provide in Deathmatch.

Also, to reiterate what was said before...

Because the Bloodmark is the single most iconic Imperial ship. I'd even venture that it's THE SYMBOL OF STRENGTH FOR THE EMPIRE which has been put out there in all the media as the front line Imperial Fighter, it'll be chosen by many, if not most of the new players or the "I just want to get the daily done for credits and or XP" crowd who just want something cool to fly. Thus we'll end up flooded with toothless support ships in many matches and the already bad Imperial GSF experience will become even worse.
Currently in an Imperial rehabilitation facility receiving treatment for WoW addiction.

Danylia's Avatar


Danylia
03.05.2014 , 09:15 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
because less discerning pilots will use the Bloodmark simply because it is the coolest and most iconic looking Imperial ship.
*Raises hand*
Quote: Originally Posted by IronSalamander View Post
Scorpio is just a glorified Microsoft product ("time to upgrade", "I must upgrade",etc.) and I really want this thing off my ship. Kaliyo went from obnoxious to worthless really fast and I would love to dump her out the airlock.