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dps meter


Menisong's Avatar


Menisong
02.05.2012 , 01:12 PM | #41
I suspect we won't see a combat log in this game for a very very long time. I think Bioware is using the lack of a player combat log to mask how poorly balanced the classes are, that they were not properly balanced before launch.

I think when we start seeing massive talent, ability changes in the patches we may be getting closer.

Hxxr's Avatar


Hxxr
02.07.2012 , 05:15 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Thankyjack View Post
Still, why do the equivalent of giving an idiot a gun?
Why forbid guns just because there are idiots out there that might or might not get a hold of one?

Best case scenario the idiots will shoot eachother and everybody wins.
Worst case there'd be some collateral damage.

Btw, since when is 'gun' an acceptable metaphor for 'metric game analysis'?

It's a game. There are people who find numbers very entertaining, so why not supply them with the means?

Thankyjack's Avatar


Thankyjack
02.08.2012 , 03:16 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Zothlar View Post
To sum up, the pro-meter people want a tool available for people that use it, and are fine with it being ignored by people who don't find that playstyle fun. To each his own.

The anti-meter people don't want the tool and therefore don't want it available to anyone. They apparently believe everyone should play their way.

Finally, yes some people will be jerks if we add a dps meter. They will be jerks if we don't add a meter. Because they are just jerks.
Pro-meter people are fine with it because many of them will absolutely use the dps meters "for" other players, whether we want them to or not.

Here is a fair compromise, because meters can be fun if used properly: we have meters, but no way to publish or broadcast the results to others. That way, pro-meter people can use the results to improve their play, but cannot use them to grief others.

darkonnis's Avatar


darkonnis
02.10.2012 , 10:57 AM | #44
A happy compromise would be to have meters only show what damage/healing you do.
I'd love to know how i do, i dont care at all about you and your self conscious self. Oh noes you may actually have to take your role as DPS properly, who'd have thunk it. Personally i'd love to see what talents are good, what aren't whats worth having. What isnt. It becomes obvious after 2 raids if someones DPS is ****, because mind traps dont break, jarg and sorno dont have equal health when you take them down. One of the DPS dies and all of a sudden the boss's %% hp doesnt seem to move. For casual players im sure this is fine, but i have spent the last 3 weeks bored doing EV (soa HM) because people cant get it right or do enough DPS. If a meter means i'll be able to not waste my time, i'll gladly take it.
Darth Bain, Black Dawn Syndicate - 50 Assassin - Luka Sene
Valar Morghulis, Apotheosis - 50 Marauder - Luka Sene

Drakinor's Avatar


Drakinor
02.10.2012 , 12:41 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Vedious View Post
i just wanted to know if anyone knows if we will ever have some type of dps meter, like how r u supposed to know if ur doing good in a flashpoint without knowing the numbers. I know swtor doesnt have any addon options yet or will ever have it, but does any1 know if a dps meter will ever be implemented
checklist for knowing your doing it right

1. as dps your hitting the SAME target as tank
2. said target is focusing on tank and not you
3. targets health bar is decreasing at a decent pace
4. no ones yelling at you for being an idiot and pulling
5. you let the TANK do the initial pull, unless other wise asked
6. you focus on burning down the correct targets and not concern yourself with whether or not your the best dps on the team. Its a TEAM not a competition
7. you understand that meters only make people competitive in the team which causes stupid mistakes like extra pulls, over use of AOE, getting initial hits as dps, "alpha strike" mentality and blaming healer for you dying etc.
8. bosses arent wasting the tank because healer ran out of resources to heal with (if this happens either 1. tanks dam reduction is too low, 2. healers resources are too low, or 3. lo and behold your dps is too low, not always tank and healers fault)

simple right? Common sense is your friend lol
"The commander stands for virtues of wisdom, sincerity, benevolence, courage, and strictness" Sun Tzu

JLapp's Avatar


JLapp
02.10.2012 , 02:12 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakinor View Post
1. as dps your hitting the SAME target as tank
What? If there are multiple targets (specifically weak ones) I am specifically going to be targeting the one the tank isn't.

Quote:
2. said target is focusing on tank and not you
Sounds like the tank who isn't doing it right.

Quote:
3. targets health bar is decreasing at a decent pace
How do I know what a decent pace is? How do I know if it is me or the other DPS that isn't doing it "at a decent pace"?

Quote:
4. no ones yelling at you for being an idiot and pulling
I don't have all day! Lets hurry this **** up.

Quote:
5. you let the TANK do the initial pull, unless other wise asked
See 4.

Quote:
6. you focus on burning down the correct targets and not concern yourself with whether or not your the best dps on the team. Its a TEAM not a competition
Most teams seek to get better.

Quote:
7. you understand that meters only make people competitive in the team which causes stupid mistakes like extra pulls, over use of AOE, getting initial hits as dps, "alpha strike" mentality and blaming healer for you dying etc.
jack-holes are going to be jack-holes with or without meters. Terrible use of "only"...lots of people have very legitimate uses for them.

Quote:
8. bosses aren't wasting the tank because healer ran out of resources to heal with (if this happens either 1. tanks dam reduction is too low, 2. healers resources are too low, or 3. lo and behold your dps is too low, not always tank and healers fault)
MY DPS?!?!?!? what about the other dps in my group?


Also how am I going to make fun of the other people in my group for having less gear than me without numbers to back it up!

Zothlar's Avatar


Zothlar
02.10.2012 , 08:05 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Thankyjack View Post
Pro-meter people are fine with it because many of them will absolutely use the dps meters "for" other players, whether we want them to or not.

Here is a fair compromise, because meters can be fun if used properly: we have meters, but no way to publish or broadcast the results to others. That way, pro-meter people can use the results to improve their play, but cannot use them to grief others.
Over the course of these threads I have gotten really, really tired of the claim that players with meters "grief" people. It is a lie told from a ridiculously self-centered perspective. If people are forming a raid with the expectation of success, then joining that group brings the responsibility of performing well. This means proper spec, appropriate gear, and a competent understanding of class mechanics. If someone fails to bring those things and vastly underperforms then they are not a victim. They have put themselves in this position and are, in fact, having a negative effect on the fun of the people they are grouped with.

Yes, that person paid $15 to play how they want and shouldn't be told what is right or wrong. But the other 7 people have paid $105 and have a right to expect that everyone who has voluntarily grouped with them is going to help them have fun the way those 7 people want to play.

No one is telling you that you can't run a busted spec and make a raid full of people in RP slave outfits spamming nothing but force lighting all night long. If you and the people in your raid are having fun then by all means, do it that way every week.

But why do you feel like you have some sort of right to raid with anyone at anytime and not feel an obligation to help them have fun too? Why do you feel entitled to make everyone else accept your playstyle?

If I join the costume raid above and refuse to wear the gear that everyone is wearing and insist on using abilities other than force lightning then I'm forcing that group to accept my playstyle even though that's not why they are there. And after griefing them this way, when they kick me I'm self-centered enough to cry about "elitists" being mean? I asked for it by not being willing to help their group have fun their way.

If you join a performance raid and refuse to do what is accepted and understood to maximize performance then YOU are the problem. No one will try to tell you how to play until YOU put YOURSELF into positions where YOU have a responsibilty to more people's fun than just your own.
-Jim

FobManX's Avatar


FobManX
02.12.2012 , 06:36 PM | #48
I don't really get the people who are totally against meters. I understand you don't want people spamming them in parties as that can be obnoxious, but there shouldn't be any issue with at least knowing how much DPS YOU did. And once you start doing endgame, it's important to be able to play optimally. Yes I know there are a lot of bads who just want to play but many of us strive to play the best we can and are always trying to be better. Hard to do that without knowing just what we're putting out.

At the least they can make it so you can view total damage done at the end of a flashpoint, and then maybe set it up so you can divvy that up and look at damage done per boss attempt to get a clearer picture(total damage is bad because it overemphasizes trash/AOE situations).

Forduc's Avatar


Forduc
02.13.2012 , 07:45 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Zothlar View Post
Over the course of these threads I have gotten really, really tired of the claim that players with meters "grief" people.
Not all, not most, but some. Granted, they'll probably be pain either way, but then they'll have someting to troll about even if things are going nicely.

And while things you said are important (to some people), dps meters aren't only or even good way to deal with those kind of questions/management.

Bionixx's Avatar


Bionixx
02.13.2012 , 08:23 AM | #50
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The majority of the people who are against damage meters are the ones who do not perform well on them. And you have no right to object. Stop trying to hide your ineptitude and learn to play your class/spec. Let the actual good players have a tool to analyze performance.
Something, something, something, dark side.
Something, something, something, complete.