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New to MMO's, is it normal that I often get killed if I don't use my healer..

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
New to MMO's, is it normal that I often get killed if I don't use my healer..

Elly_Dawn's Avatar


Elly_Dawn
03.01.2014 , 03:48 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by OddballEasyEight View Post
I'd reccomend DPS since that is easier for someone who is new to MMO's.
true, i'd have to agree for a beginner DPS is the easier route, Tank is probably the hardest to get used to and efficient with... personally my Assassin and Shadow are both Tanks, but this ain't my first rodeo...
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Essence_of_Light's Avatar


Essence_of_Light
03.01.2014 , 03:56 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by OddballEasyEight View Post
I'd reccomend DPS since that is easier for someone who is new to MMO's.
Pretty much sums up what I was going to suggest ^
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chibiseira's Avatar


chibiseira
03.01.2014 , 04:20 PM | #13
What everyone else said. Tank = tank tree. Maybe a few points elsewhere, but if you're in the dps tree, you're a dps, even with endurance heavy gear and a shield (which wouldn't do you nearly as much good, btw, without tree points). You can either hop into the tank tree to use what's likely you're current gear, or learn to dps and re-gear as you go.

You aren't locked into using any particular type of companion by the role you play. It sounds like it'll be much easier for you to play with a heal companion, but if you equipped a dps one and could kill things faster you could make it work.

Did you remember to gear your companions? If they're still in the gear they came in, or even just hand-me-downs which for anyone but troopers will have the wrong mainstat, they WOULD be highly ineffective. Companions are only as good as you gear them up to be.

I'd recommend seeking out a n00b friendly but experienced guild to help you along the way and who you can bounce questions off of. There are great class guides out there - Dulfy has several, and there are many on the forums (though some better than others, always skim the comments) - but sometimes it's going to be easier to just ask someone who knows the role(s) well.
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RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
03.02.2014 , 12:11 AM | #14
As someone new to MMO's you are making a classic mistake of someone used to single player RPG mechanics. As a single player, you can (and sometimes need to) dabble in all different roles at the same time. This really does not work in most MMO's (especially ones like this that are tank/dps/heal-trinity based).

Putting on a shield generator and some gear with mixed dps/tank gear and having skills mixed indifferent trees will mean you are not good at any of the roles. A shield generator will not even be active without being in tank stance. Some key DPS abilities do not work at all if you are in tank stance. Pick one role (DPS is a good start as others have said) and go all the way with it.

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
03.02.2014 , 06:25 AM | #15
I actually prefer the variety of tank + dps(jugg + Vette), DPS + tank(Sniper + Kaliyo), Healer + DPS etc. I also prefer going with other than healers because then you have to think and plan ahead, not just count on the free heals. And ofc, there are those sweet crafted medpacks(BioChem) that Heal you for at least 33% at once and another 33% over 9s. In that way you can bypass Healing completely. But if you still use them with an actual Healer present...you can solo champs and I mean it.

If you expected to be a tank just purely on AC and then slapping the DPS tree to become a tanky DPS, you picked a wrong AC. See, Mara can become more tanky than the venge jugg. Anyhow, I'd recommend you play as a DPS at first because it's literally the easiest way to play(and gear up). Gearing up as a DPS: keep your barrel/hilt/whatever as close up to date as possible + in a blue colour. Easy right?

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
03.02.2014 , 07:53 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
If you expected to be a tank just purely on AC and then slapping the DPS tree to become a tanky DPS, you picked a wrong AC. See, Mara can become more tanky than the venge jugg. Anyhow, I'd recommend you play as a DPS at first because it's literally the easiest way to play(and gear up). Gearing up as a DPS: keep your barrel/hilt/whatever as close up to date as possible + in a blue colour. Easy right?
You sure? Cause I always thought this Tank/DPS hybrid (run in tank stance) was incredibly tough, and if I remember correctly could even out-do full tank tree in survivability (its threat gen is worse though)

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#10...oMZcGrMb0sob.3

PhantomMalice's Avatar


PhantomMalice
03.02.2014 , 10:32 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
You sure? Cause I always thought this Tank/DPS hybrid (run in tank stance) was incredibly tough, and if I remember correctly could even out-do full tank tree in survivability (its threat gen is worse though)

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#10...oMZcGrMb0sob.3
Ok, let me stop you right there. First of all, that spec is GROSSLY outdated and it wasn't even that effective at the time it was proposed. Go back and re-read all the talents in that trees again, since launch Guardian/Juggernaut had went through massive overhaul that made hybrids like that a cripple with mental deficiency.

Like people had said before you, pick a role and stick with it. Don't go thinking you can invent something new.

Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
03.02.2014 , 11:04 AM | #18
If you really want to tank, respec so most of your points are in the tank tree. Be sure you have a shield equipped and that your mods are tank mods - defense, absorb & shield. When you hit 55 and start augmenting your gear, again, get tanking augments, not endurance.

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jaytdasme's Avatar


jaytdasme
03.02.2014 , 01:40 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Elly_Dawn View Post
true, i'd have to agree for a beginner DPS is the easier route, Tank is probably the hardest to get used to and efficient with... personally my Assassin and Shadow are both Tanks, but this ain't my first rodeo...
I'd have to disagree, tanking is actually fairly easy if you know the fights. Holding aggro as a guardian can be a pain sometimes, but basically as long as you make sure you're the main one getting hit and not dying you are doing okay as tank. Ofcourse when you do it late game there's a little more too it than that but then you probably would have grasped the concept well enough to do it well.

Especially leveling. Knights/warriors (particularly new players) are notorious for sucking and dying for what is a very frustrating experience when you level as non tank. People tend to feel like they are super indomitable because your wear Heavy.. but this game has a way of humbling you out of that notion real quick.
Do or do not. There is no try.

Elyx's Avatar


Elyx
03.02.2014 , 01:44 PM | #20
I'll add this to the discussion:

As a new player, you also picked one of the classes that is least forgiving to a new player.

1) Juggernaut/Guardian class is slow to mature: while you are past that threshold (usually the mid 40's), the class itself matures (a.k.a it gets its best skills) much later in its leveling game. This makes it much more difficult to get an overall feel for the classes function early on.

2) Jugg/Guard is very gear dependent. Always has been (most it's damage is based on your weapon and stats). That means that stat optimization affects you more then most, and also impacts you negatively more then most when you DONT optimize. not game breaking, but it is there.

3) Jugg Guard has NO personal healing abilities....at all...period. most other hybrid classes have some personal healing Capactiy (the tank classes all deal with this limitation now... assassin not as much, but still there). And if you play MMO's long enough, you will come to know the cardinal rule....healing damage is always more beneficial in the long run then resisting damage. so no matter how tough we jugg's are, damage taken is damage taken...and not healed. Which means that unless you have a healer lying around, you will spend far more time recovering.

all this aside. once you get intimate with the class, used to balancing skill use, aggro on yourself vs. aggro on your companion, timing pulls (letting your comp get A and B, you grab C and D, etc), and gearing yourself appropriately, you will see your Jugg bloom into an awesome character. In the meantime, give yourself some grace, don't sweat the losses, and keep yourself oriented on this thought:

"what could I have done better in that last fight?"

after a tough fight, run over your skill descriptions (all of them), and see if any of your skills could have been used slightly better (or just used period) to make that last tough fight easier. make a mental note if you find one, and promise yourself that you'll use it in the next fight.

Personal example: Early in my juggs life, I realized that allot of mobs i was hitting with my leap/smash combo were still alive....but perhaps with only a sliver of life left. I would often find myself using a heavy hitting ability to finish them off, only to find myself with nothing but my auto attack to use on the next mob until my heavy hitters came back off of Cooldown. So I got used to using my Auto attack on the almost dead mobs, and saved my hard hitting abilities (that often spent rage) on the next mob. suddenly my kill speed increased dramatically!

It was a simply case of refining resource use.....wasting a rage spending ability on an almost dead mob is a waste of the overall damage you do with that ability. But I didn't realize this until I spent some time in post battle analysis.

EDIT:
Just in case you aren't familiar with a few terms:
Auto Attack - not really "auto", but it describes a basic ability that costs no resources, and you start with from the very beginning. Often referred to as "auto attack" because in other MMO's, this starting basic ability is often literally on auto pilot from the moment you engage a mob. In SWtOR, we actually have to trigger it each time we want it to be used. in the case of your Juggernaut, it's called Assault.

Cooldown: term describing the amount of time it takes an ability, once used, to become available again. for some, its zero, others can be as high as 30 seconds, or even minutes. More powerful abilites often have longer Cooldowns.
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