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TDM much improved by removal of capital ship turrets

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
TDM much improved by removal of capital ship turrets

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
02.27.2014 , 10:59 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by zaskar View Post
is it just me or does anyone else think it's hilarious that all the qq'ing about this and most people did not figure out to kill the ship turrets to get to the campers pre-.1? It took a bit of skill to do so in a scout but with a little teamwork it was fairly easy.
You do realize this is about the spawn turrets right? Not the turrets at the nodes.

You could only kill the ship turrets with something like 8 full charge slug rounds each. If you could do that and manage to survive any attention from the people at spawn, you would've been able to win the game 5 times over in the same amount of time just doing hit-and-run attacks on the campers.

I still think the removal of the turrets is stupid and unnecessary. I've never seen an attempt to hide behind the spawn turrets not be breakable with the right play. Removing them just opened the gates for some epic spawn ******. I know, I've inflicted a few since the change went live.
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Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
02.27.2014 , 11:06 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Fractalsponge View Post
You could only kill the ship turrets with something like 8 full charge slug rounds each. If you could do that and manage to survive any attention from the people at spawn, you would've been able to win the game 5 times over in the same amount of time just doing hit-and-run attacks on the campers.
The cap ship turrets have something like 100k HP it takes a few more than 8 slugs to kill them.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
02.27.2014 , 11:28 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
The cap ship turrets have something like 100k HP it takes a few more than 8 slugs to kill them.
I never actually tried to target the turrets, good to know. It's even more pointless to target than I had thought .
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Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

Nefastuss's Avatar


Nefastuss
02.27.2014 , 11:47 AM | #14
The removal of the capital ships guns was a disaster. I hope Bioware realizes it fast before it screws GSF for good. Camping (or getting camped) in the ships is stupidity. The guns are necessary.

OscarDivine's Avatar


OscarDivine
02.27.2014 , 11:48 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Fractalsponge View Post
I never actually tried to target the turrets, good to know. It's even more pointless to target than I had thought .
It's actually more like 160,000 HP because a fully charged Slug Shot of 1600 only does 1% damage to it

Gerfaut's Avatar


Gerfaut
02.27.2014 , 07:25 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefastuss View Post
The removal of the capital ships guns was a disaster. I hope Bioware realizes it fast before it screws GSF for good. Camping (or getting camped) in the ships is stupidity. The guns are necessary.
Yes, camping at capital ships is stupid and makes TDM boring and un-fun. But camping was being caused by the presence of turrets. Now that the turrets are gone, there is almost no camping going on anymore on my server.

Before turret removal, about 80% of TDM games would turn into gunship-dominated standoffs at a capital ship. It was totally broken. Since the patch, I have played 27 games over the course of 2 nights and prolonged spawn-camping only happened in the very first game, on the first night, because the enemy players likely didn't know about the change and didn't know how to react to it. Last night, the action did move to one of the enemy capital ships in one of the games, and someone on my team suggested spawn-camping them, but within a minute or so, the enemy team just switched to a different spawn and that was the end of it. Spawn-camping happens in less than 10% of the games now, so it's a huge improvement.

Re-adding turrets would bring TDM back to a state where every game ends up as a standoff at a capital ship, which was extremely boring and prevented scouts and strike fighters from participating. I am all in favor of giving freshly-spawned players a short-term buff protecting them from damage (in another thread, I suggested a 10-second immunity buff that goes away if the player interacts with his weapons). But re-activating the turrets would be the worst possible thing to do.

In TDM, enemy players are the objective, and players should not be able to deny the objective to the opposing team by doing nothing (hiding within a safe zone where the opposing team can't get to them without being 1-shot by turrets). Safe zones can't exist in TDM or every game gets dragged out into a stalemate.

Delta_V's Avatar


Delta_V
02.27.2014 , 08:01 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Gerfaut View Post
Yes, camping at capital ships is stupid and makes TDM boring and un-fun. But camping was being caused by the presence of turrets. Now that the turrets are gone, there is almost no camping going on anymore on my server.

Before turret removal, about 80% of TDM games would turn into gunship-dominated standoffs at a capital ship. It was totally broken. Since the patch, I have played 27 games over the course of 2 nights and prolonged spawn-camping only happened in the very first game, on the first night, because the enemy players likely didn't know about the change and didn't know how to react to it. Last night, the action did move to one of the enemy capital ships in one of the games, and someone on my team suggested spawn-camping them, but within a minute or so, the enemy team just switched to a different spawn and that was the end of it. Spawn-camping happens in less than 10% of the games now, so it's a huge improvement.

Re-adding turrets would bring TDM back to a state where every game ends up as a standoff at a capital ship, which was extremely boring and prevented scouts and strike fighters from participating. I am all in favor of giving freshly-spawned players a short-term buff protecting them from damage (in another thread, I suggested a 10-second immunity buff that goes away if the player interacts with his weapons). But re-activating the turrets would be the worst possible thing to do.

In TDM, enemy players are the objective, and players should not be able to deny the objective to the opposing team by doing nothing (hiding within a safe zone where the opposing team can't get to them without being 1-shot by turrets). Safe zones can't exist in TDM or every game gets dragged out into a stalemate.

I think some of it depends on the server. Some people claim that they never had issues with teams hiding behind their capships prior to 2.6, but are now having issues with spawn camping. I'll agree with your assessment of Harbinger though - I've never had an issue with spawn camping, and have only seen a single match (pre-2.6 for that matter), where the losing team was forced back to their capship (as opposed to matches where a team retreated there on their own). Prior to 2.6, however, Harbinger was absolutely plagued with the "retreat to capship" strategy, where in a tight match, one team would always retreat to their capship in the hopes the turrets would give them an advantage.


So on Harbinger, it has definitely been an improvement, since we had a bigger issue with the problem that was solved than with the one that was created. On other servers, however, the "hide at capships" strategy might not have been as severe, and they now have a bigger issue with spawn camping.
The Harbinger Server
The Shepard Legacy
Sibbel - 55 Sentinel
Ethmandel - 55 Commando

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
02.28.2014 , 09:09 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Delta_V View Post
I think some of it depends on the server. Some people claim that they never had issues with teams hiding behind their capships prior to 2.6, but are now having issues with spawn camping. I'll agree with your assessment of Harbinger though - I've never had an issue with spawn camping, and have only seen a single match (pre-2.6 for that matter), where the losing team was forced back to their capship (as opposed to matches where a team retreated there on their own). Prior to 2.6, however, Harbinger was absolutely plagued with the "retreat to capship" strategy, where in a tight match, one team would always retreat to their capship in the hopes the turrets would give them an advantage.


So on Harbinger, it has definitely been an improvement, since we had a bigger issue with the problem that was solved than with the one that was created. On other servers, however, the "hide at capships" strategy might not have been as severe, and they now have a bigger issue with spawn camping.
Were all pilots on Harbinger completely incapable of breaking a victory camper attempt?! Ebon Hawk pilots eith even a modicum of experience had little difficulty drawing out victory campers. Hell, I remember the last one we faced before the "turret strike" (what a ridiculous explanation!) - the campers even had voice. We ROUTED them.

So the way I see it, either Harbinger had the finest victory campers SWTOR had to offer... or y'all need to roll on Ebon Hawk and take a few flight lessons.

Delta_V's Avatar


Delta_V
02.28.2014 , 10:22 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Sidenti View Post
Were all pilots on Harbinger completely incapable of breaking a victory camper attempt?! Ebon Hawk pilots eith even a modicum of experience had little difficulty drawing out victory campers. Hell, I remember the last one we faced before the "turret strike" (what a ridiculous explanation!) - the campers even had voice. We ROUTED them.

So the way I see it, either Harbinger had the finest victory campers SWTOR had to offer... or y'all need to roll on Ebon Hawk and take a few flight lessons.
It's not just about winning (and my win percentage is still over 70%), it's about fun. And playing whack-a-mole with six enemy gunships who stick their noses out only to barrel roll back to the protection of their turrets at the first sign of trouble is not fun, even when you win. When it happens every single match, it get old really fast.
The Harbinger Server
The Shepard Legacy
Sibbel - 55 Sentinel
Ethmandel - 55 Commando

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
02.28.2014 , 10:44 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Delta_V View Post
It's not just about winning (and my win percentage is still over 70%), it's about fun. And playing whack-a-mole with six enemy gunships who stick their noses out only to barrel roll back to the protection of their turrets at the first sign of trouble is not fun, even when you win. When it happens every single match, it get old really fast.
So you're beating the tactic and complaining because you're bored that you're beating the tactic?

Huh.

You know what else isn't "fun"? Stuff that doesn't make sense. Like, say, an enemy squadron hovering around one of your battlecruisers and the 'cruiser just doesn't care.

Patience IS a virtue. Just sayin'.