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Strike on the capital ships: Double edged sword?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Strike on the capital ships: Double edged sword?
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Ravenschild's Avatar


Ravenschild
02.26.2014 , 04:18 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Sidenti View Post
I preface my comments with the statement that I am, in fact, the Galaxy's Worst Gunship Pilot(tm) and therefore never even fly the damned things - let alone know how to use terrain to my advantage like the better ones do.

First and foremost, terrain modifiers have been used in the art of war since the first tribal leader figured out sneak attacks were a lot better against well-entrenched foes than charging at 'em in broad daylight across an open plain. The gunship pilots in question were doing nothing wrong. Matter of fact, the ones that were actually getting bonafide kills were doing something I consider to be more difficult than standard TDM. (It takes skill, patience and battlefield awareness to get kills if all you're doing is running like a blasted chicken, but damned if Rainous doesn't manage!)

Secondly, the concept's ludicrous on its face. Capital ship turret operators... on STRIKE?! You can't STRIKE in the f*&^ing military! Are they Pandaren too? I mean, if we're gonna get THIS silly, let's go all-out.

Finally, spawn-camping. It's gonna happen and it's gonna be bad if proper measures haven't been preemptively taken. I imagine that's why BioWare had the turrets in the first place - because, at some point, they had an issue with PvP spawn camping.

Bottom line? I don't think it's a change that ultimately benefits the playmode. Good squads had little difficulty beating victory campers - matter of fact, I flew with a random pick-up Imperial squad on Ebon Hawk just yesterday that utterly ANNIHILATED a group of victory-camping voice-enabled Pubs. That victory felt especially good - but now the challenge is gone.

Don't dumb down GSF for the sake of a few whiny, non-talented pilots who don't understand how to rise to a challenge. (And don't bother flaming me for the opinion, pilots - I'm married and used to far, far worse.)
The problem was people were pulling ahead in TDM and then camping their mothership so the other side could not catch up in kills. It wasnt about dumbing down GSF it was about people doing things to rig the game.
If you get hurt,hurt them back.If you get killed,walk it off
Ravnn (Sniper) | Culainn (Commando) | Cintas (Mercenary)| Skaya (Sage)| Dar'gai (Gunslinger)| Gliocas (Sorcerer)| Murphys Law (Sorcerer
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Lytewraith's Avatar


Lytewraith
02.26.2014 , 04:26 AM | #42
that is why you have other spawn points they cant all be camped effectively spawn where it is safe from banging your head on a wall you know what appens to the wall when they are focused on whats infront of them at one spawn don't you they get smashed from behind from the gatlin gun feel of blast from aoe ions from 4 ships behind them at such long range they cant see them in there tunnel vision

Darth_Alru's Avatar


Darth_Alru
02.26.2014 , 06:27 AM | #43
Well, I played just one space pvp match after the last patch and now I believe it's about time to say something. Put my two cents if you wish.

After a few seconds I saw the patch notes yesterday and realised that cap ships turrets are no more I already knew, what should and will I do with my fully upgraded gunship or almost fully upgraded bomber once I enter the first match. So when my deathmatch started I did exaclty that: took a straight flight to an enemy capital ship, hid a hyperspace beacon beneath it in a place when it was the least noticeable, and then just flew around spawn zone dropping my mines here and there. The results are 4 kills, 14 assists, almost 40k damage, never been killed myself and I did absolutely nothing in that match but only flying around unrealisticly passive capital ship. The weakness of opponents doesn't change a point. I did it with one bomber, imagine what a group of bombers can do. Or a group of gunships who will hide under or behind spawn zone. And I disagree with those of us who is so sure that it is impossible to camp 2 spawn zones effectively. Believe me, in a 12v12 match it's not a big deal, especially for a high skilled group of pilots. They already know how they need to act if they want to use such advantage and if they don't, be sure they will understand this in a couple of days.

Guys, what were you thinking when you decided to implement such changes in the game? A very bad decision just turned a promising mode into unplayable mess.
Yes, I admit when I use a gunship I'm not hesitating to retreat if I feel that my chances are slim against pilot or pilots who can actually smash me with a coulpe of shield piercing shots and missiles. You can think whatever you want, but it's not a move of a coward, it's a move of a smart man. Because, you know, on the war not the strongest but smartest wins. That's why the smartest is the strongest. Your main goal in a battle is to survive. I don't want to offend anybody but if you die 9+ times in a match, you not a noob or unskillful player, you are a fool. And obviously I'm not a fool to give anybody an easy kill.

I understand why some people began to whine in the first place. Some skillful teams couldn't beat some newbies easely anymore because they were not so foolish to go into a trap and get an instant kill. Yep, I've been on that side too. We stayed close to each other and to our capital ship. Not hugging it, but close enough to make a home run, to make them chase us and to pull them into our own trap. It calls tactics you know and it worked. We lost, but only by two points and only because time have expired. That was fun. For us and I believe for them too. That was a kind of a challenge. As it was mentioned somewhere in the forums the weaker team must have a chance to fight back. And now it doesn't have it.

It's not a secret to anybody that imbalance of the pvp in SWTOR is even more laughable then payroll differences in Major League Baseball. But what is worse and what's really driving me nuts is the gosh darn quitters who leave their teams after the first bump on the road. I hadn't seen much of that in space pvp yet, but I bet people will massively leave their team in deathmatches even before the game starts. The bottom line is that now with that change good players have absolutely no reason to play in any kind of weaker teams or to start again from the ground with another character. You know, many people are playing GSF because they want to have fun. And it's not funny to be squashed all the time.

Again, That's only my opinion. I'm not gonna argue or try to convince anybody. But I just felt that I really need to stand up and say what I think is right.
So, thanks for your attention and see ya in the battle.
The Red Eclipse Alru - Sith Marauder

Su'raya-ki - Mercenary Ma'sel - Operative Jua - Sniper

Nefastuss's Avatar


Nefastuss
02.26.2014 , 07:01 AM | #44
To me it was a pretty stupid thing to do. The capital ships were important to the fact you could coordenate better with your team in case you are losing, grouping them there and going together. Now you come out in the middle of the mess and fighting flying around a capital ship is so freaking silly. Second it was a safe spot for all ship classes do run to for a moment if they need a time to breath. I do hope they change this nonsense.

mighty_joe's Avatar


mighty_joe
02.26.2014 , 08:51 AM | #45
i said it before, after a couple of more matches my opinion is confirmed.

there was some change to capital ships needed, but disabling turrets was the cheapest move conceivable.
why not make it so the patch notes say "party on cap ships, everybody drunk, turret accuracy reduced by x%" or "minor power failure on cap ship, turret dmg output reduced by x%.

would have been far better for gameplay, imho.
Happily Smiles
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The Red Eclipse
The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.26.2014 , 09:12 AM | #46
I feel like we've wasted far more time typing out alternative solutions than they spent dinking with code, so I don't really think anything more needs to be said. Listening to the hordes of "Wahh, I followed the big bad gunship to his cap ship and then I got hit by lasers and that was not my fault!" is a pretty poor decision.

I'll say it briefly: Cap ships warding an area is fine. Cap ships warding a team of people huddled ahead by 2 points until time runs out is not fine. If your team is willing, or is forced, to give up 80% of the map, there should be some mechanic that makes you lose for doing that / having that happen to you. And that mechanic shouldn't be "u get spawn camped lewlz". The powerups seem a natural place to put this mechanic.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.26.2014 , 09:25 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
I feel like we've wasted far more time typing out alternative solutions than they spent dinking with code, so I don't really think anything more needs to be said. Listening to the hordes of "Wahh, I followed the big bad gunship to his cap ship and then I got hit by lasers and that was not my fault!" is a pretty poor decision.

I'll say it briefly: Cap ships warding an area is fine. Cap ships warding a team of people huddled ahead by 2 points until time runs out is not fine. If your team is willing, or is forced, to give up 80% of the map, there should be some mechanic that makes you lose for doing that / having that happen to you. And that mechanic shouldn't be "u get spawn camped lewlz". The powerups seem a natural place to put this mechanic.
THREE spawn points...not 2. There will be THREE! If you can't figure out how to get out of that mess, you may as well just quit the match. They are far too often used as cover and this is a VERY good move by Bioware.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.26.2014 , 09:52 AM | #48
I'm pretty sure I can camp three spawns, but whatever.

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
02.26.2014 , 10:17 AM | #49
Results from last night's queuing:

Only got a few TDMs, but whatever:

- One match was fairly even, normal deathmatch. We won before hitting 50, mostly fighting over the usual areas of mesas.
- One match was a total blowout (matchmaking fail - half 5 ship people on my side vs another Imperial side of ALL 2 shippers). I went with a low upgrade ship and I think most of the rest of my team did as well. Lots of dogfighting (well, execution, but no one bothered to push into their spawn). This would easily have been a spawn rape had we been so inclined.

Other two matches illustrate nicely the effects of the changes:
One match on shipyards. In theory the teams should have been even judging by the hangar count, but we rolled the republic team on shipyards through their shipyard complex and right into their spawn. We farmed a few of them, but enough of them respawned at another spawn that peeled off a few of ours to deal with them. Blowout, but about the same speed as a normal victory.

Last match (mesas) was exactly what people have been warning about. There was even "matchmaking" for once: almost all 5-shippers on both my team and the republic team. We rolled them so hard that we were over their spawn within 10 kills. The other team attempted the usual republic Shadowlands tactic of forming a gunship ball around spawn, but we pushed in so quickly over their spawn that they never got to set up. Even when they started spawning in scouts and strikes, they got destroyed before getting out of the capship area. No one on their side attempted to jump spawns, though they should have known better. At one point I did not actually have to select anyone, since 3-4 of them were clustered so tightly on spawning that I could just hold down my trigger and spray the area to hit them all. I died once to hull attrition that hydrospanner couldn't fix. We didn't even have a bomber there, or it would've been over even quicker than it was.

So yeah, at least on the first night even people that should've known better were not able to use the extra respawn to escape being destroyed on spawning. This is going to suck for long term retention in GSF, which makes me sad.

Nefastuss's Avatar


Nefastuss
02.26.2014 , 11:03 AM | #50
Was just doing some matches, bioware SCREWED the GSF BADLY if this change. People being camped at the ships or fighting flying around them. Do those guys do anything right?