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Prepare to be farmed: Cap ships in TDM no longer fire at enemies

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Prepare to be farmed: Cap ships in TDM no longer fire at enemies

Jandi's Avatar


Jandi
02.24.2014 , 05:09 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by QuinMantha View Post
I disagree. What you would see happen more often is one team (winning OR losing, I've seen both) would retreat to over their capital ship, set up their Gunships, and pick people off who wandered too close. I came to call this tactic a "Gunny Camp", and it was no fun for anyone. No-one could get close enough to engage for fear of capital ship fire, and the Gunny Campers could sit with impunity and bloody noses from the limit of their range.

It effectively meant the engagement was over. There would be no more mixing it up, no more close-quarters dogfighting...just sitting at sixteen klicks from the target you SO wanted to kill, but they wouldn't come out and play.

Worse were the sissies of all ship types who, once their got their noses bloodied, would run crying for their mother(ship). GSF is about mixing it up, and trying to outfly the bad guys through superior tactics, hardware, and team coordination. You don't wimp out and quit fighting before the fighting's done. I made a special point of WAITING for folks who did that after I bloodied their noses, just so I could catch them when they got bold again and make them take their medicine.
What made me stop doing GSF, was the fact that even if you didn't want to do this, if your team did you have no choice in the matter. When half your team does nothing, going out is meaningless.
Those that demand respect deserve only pity.

QuinMantha's Avatar


QuinMantha
02.24.2014 , 05:17 PM | #42
Precisely. I'm not kidding when I say, it's NO. FUN. FOR ANYONE.

Even the people doing it! Sure, you've preserved your stats and salvaged maybe a LITTLE bit of pride if you were losing, but you couldn't even put the mean ol' nasties away yourself! You had to rely on a nanny-nursemaid environmental tactic to save your sorry hide!
Ebon Hawkin' And Totally Rockin'

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bigbobsr's Avatar


bigbobsr
02.24.2014 , 05:51 PM | #43
Would being able for both sides to respawn only at any of the now 6 spawn points be a reasonable option?

Start of Deathmatch you may only spawn at the 3 for your side. After being killed all are open. Or maybe after a set time in game (like a minute) they all become available.

Just a thought..............bob
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okiobe's Avatar


okiobe
02.24.2014 , 05:55 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by bigbobsr View Post
Would being able for both sides to respawn only at any of the now 6 spawn points be a reasonable option?

Start of Deathmatch you may only spawn at the 3 for your side. After being killed all are open. Or maybe after a set time in game (like a minute) they all become available.

Just a thought..............bob
Makes me think of slayer games in Halo. Spawn... energy sword (or shotgun) to the back... dang. Or the flip side. Spawn... Hey there's a guy in front of me... melee attack to the back of the head.
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Jyzai's Avatar


Jyzai
02.24.2014 , 05:56 PM | #45
To those who are for this be aware: There will always be people that will find away around the system.
Theres nothing I can say in this post that hasn`t already been said but, I agree that this will hurt GSF in the long run.
So let me get this straight you want to add a debuff to keep people from quitting warzones, then you might as well get ready for insults at you and others on the team.

OscarDivine's Avatar


OscarDivine
02.24.2014 , 06:46 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Jyzai View Post
To those who are for this be aware: There will always be people that will find away around the system.
Theres nothing I can say in this post that hasn`t already been said but, I agree that this will hurt GSF in the long run.
A problem exists one way or the other. What I think really should have been done would be to turn the capital ships into exhaustion zone. Enemy ships would still die to the cap ship lasers and you couldn't camp there waiting for your cap ship to get your kills for you. Just my 2c.

Someone will always find their way around the system, but the way it is, there is no perfect solution. We need to stop pretending there is (even myself with my 2c suggestion) and be happy that we even get upgrades for a game that was saved by F2P. >>> O hhhhhh, I don't mean to start up this ol' debate <<<

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
02.24.2014 , 07:04 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Jandi View Post
And constantly playing peekaboo with the cap ship cause every scout and gs in a match will do nothing but boost to it immediately is a good thing? It's not an ideal solution, but it's a solution to a problem that was getting out of hand and something needed to be done FAST.
No, but the way to encourage dogfighting is NOT to remove spawn protection. It's like shooting off your foot because you had an itch.

Also, let's make it clear again: if you got killed by a capital ship turret, YOU were the one being stupid because you tunneled someone/didn't use LOS/didn't keep engine pool available, not the person that was using superior situational awareness. It's like complaining that someone was playing peekaboo in the asteroids and you crashed because you played their game and lost, and I am damn tired of seeing that nonsense QQ here.

Delta_V's Avatar


Delta_V
02.24.2014 , 07:05 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by OscarDivine View Post
A problem exists one way or the other. What I think really should have been done would be to turn the capital ships into exhaustion zone. Enemy ships would still die to the cap ship lasers and you couldn't camp there waiting for your cap ship to get your kills for you. Just my 2c.

Someone will always find their way around the system, but the way it is, there is no perfect solution. We need to stop pretending there is (even myself with my 2c suggestion) and be happy that we even get upgrades for a game that was saved by F2P. >>> O hhhhhh, I don't mean to start up this ol' debate <<<
Yeah, I made this same suggestion earlier in the thread. Not sure who originally came up with it, but it's the best solution I've seen so far. It would still prevent spawn camping, while also eliminating the whole "run back to the capship to preserve your lead" strategy.

Gerfaut's Avatar


Gerfaut
02.24.2014 , 07:27 PM | #49
I think it is a really good change. TDM should never have had any turrets. It's all about killing and being killed, not huddling at the capital ship, out of reach of your enemies, and letting some 1-shot turrets do the work for you. Also, the term farming usually applies to killing players over and over in circumstances where doing so is not the main objective, such as players who are farming kills in a warzone instead of playing objectives in ground PVP. In TDM, the main objective is to kill as many enemy players as possible (while avoiding being killed too much), thereby ending the game, so I don't think it can be called "farming".

Typically, capital ships were being used in 2 situations:

1) Occasionally (rarely on my server but I saw it happen once or twice), a gunship-heavy team would set up camp at their own cap ship from the start of the game, and just wait there for the enemy to come to them. They never even tried to come out. This obviously had to be stopped.

2) One team was a lot stronger than the other and the score would get to something like 25-1 in the first 2-3 minutes of the game, then the losing team would just huddle at their capital ship and drag things on for another 10 minutes or more. This type of game was extremely boring and needed to be allowed to end, rather than being artificially stalled by the cap ship turrets. Would you really rather be camped for 10 minutes at your spawn point instead of having the game end fast and getting into a new game, hopefully with more evenly matched teams?

In both cases, there was a really negative interaction with ship class balance and with the inactivity timer. Gunships dominated because they are the only ships that can outrange cap ship turrets, and scouts/strike fighters were either getting marked as inactive for lack of available targets to do damage to, or were forced to make suicide assaults on the turret-protected enemies once a minute to get rid of the timer. This was very poor design. I have been flying mostly strike fighters lately and I am overjoyed by this change. This should restore some balance to the various ship roles in TDM.

As for those who are worried about bombers mining the spawn point, I think this issue will be self-regulating. A few people may try it, but they will be doing themselves a disservice. Sure, they may get a kill or two out of it, then all the enemies will switch to a different spawn point at the other end of the map. The scouts, strike fighters and gunships with barrel roll will be able to relocate there fast enough, but the slow bombers will end up all by themselves away from the new location of the action, and may even get marked as inactive before they manage to get back in range of the fight to contribute. Also, if I ever end up in a game against bombers who do that, I will make sure to tell my team to switch spawns immediately, then I will get in my Pike and go hunt down those bombers and blow them up to bits while they are all on their own in the middle of nowhere.

Applejacxs's Avatar


Applejacxs
02.24.2014 , 07:51 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Gerfaut View Post
I think it is a really good change. TDM should never have had any turrets. It's all about killing and being killed, not huddling at the capital ship, out of reach of your enemies, and letting some 1-shot turrets do the work for you. Also, the term farming usually applies to killing players over and over in circumstances where doing so is not the main objective, such as players who are farming kills in a warzone instead of playing objectives in ground PVP. In TDM, the main objective is to kill as many enemy players as possible (while avoiding being killed too much), thereby ending the game, so I don't think it can be called "farming".

Typically, capital ships were being used in 2 situations:

1) Occasionally (rarely on my server but I saw it happen once or twice), a gunship-heavy team would set up camp at their own cap ship from the start of the game, and just wait there for the enemy to come to them. They never even tried to come out. This obviously had to be stopped.

2) One team was a lot stronger than the other and the score would get to something like 25-1 in the first 2-3 minutes of the game, then the losing team would just huddle at their capital ship and drag things on for another 10 minutes or more. This type of game was extremely boring and needed to be allowed to end, rather than being artificially stalled by the cap ship turrets. Would you really rather be camped for 10 minutes at your spawn point instead of having the game end fast and getting into a new game, hopefully with more evenly matched teams?

In both cases, there was a really negative interaction with ship class balance and with the inactivity timer. Gunships dominated because they are the only ships that can outrange cap ship turrets, and scouts/strike fighters were either getting marked as inactive for lack of available targets to do damage to, or were forced to make suicide assaults on the turret-protected enemies once a minute to get rid of the timer. This was very poor design. I have been flying mostly strike fighters lately and I am overjoyed by this change. This should restore some balance to the various ship roles in TDM.

As for those who are worried about bombers mining the spawn point, I think this issue will be self-regulating. A few people may try it, but they will be doing themselves a disservice. Sure, they may get a kill or two out of it, then all the enemies will switch to a different spawn point at the other end of the map. The scouts, strike fighters and gunships with barrel roll will be able to relocate there fast enough, but the slow bombers will end up all by themselves away from the new location of the action, and may even get marked as inactive before they manage to get back in range of the fight to contribute. Also, if I ever end up in a game against bombers who do that, I will make sure to tell my team to switch spawns immediately, then I will get in my Pike and go hunt down those bombers and blow them up to bits while they are all on their own in the middle of nowhere.

XD so some one getting rolled 25 to 1 is supposed to feel good about them self cause the match ended early? Yeah most of the reaction to this almost submitting my belief this wont be good at all for gsf