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Prepare to be farmed: Cap ships in TDM no longer fire at enemies

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Prepare to be farmed: Cap ships in TDM no longer fire at enemies

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.24.2014 , 04:27 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ravenschild View Post
You have 2 spawns and it isnt like most groups are going to split and camp both
3 now.
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Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
02.24.2014 , 04:28 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by dancezwithnubz View Post
BW actually does something along the lines that a lot of us have been asking for and howls of derision ensue.

i don't think it'll be as bad as some claim.
There was no good reason for the asking to begin with. If someone got killed by a capital ship turret, they had bad situational awareness. What was needed was a way to stop people from AFKing for rewards, not removal of spawn protection.

This change will disproportionately hurt new players, which is horrible for the game. Why new players? Because, before this, there was no incentive to actively lure newbies to the capital ship, when you could easily kill them in the open. But there is now no disincentive to push as hard as possible to catch people as they spawn.

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Phatbeard
02.24.2014 , 04:33 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
New patch notes:
"Capital Ships in Galactic Starfighter’s Team Deathmatch mode will no longer fire at opposing players"

Cap ships were indeed a problem, but removing their turrets will lead to spawn point camping.

What needed to happen instead is moving the spawn points much further back so that respawning players would actually have some time to go evasive and avoid some of the blockade. Without guns you will need to give respawned players a short invulnerability (and no firing back) window, otherwise it will be 2 rows of gunships killing everything or minelayers saturating the spawn point.

Yes, you can always use the other spawn point if one is being camped, but this will inevitably lead to one side separated into two groups and easy to kill, or getting strung out and killed one by one.

Something had to be done, but this is just taking one problem and replacing it with a potentially worse problem.
Finally, the Jedi Covenant Imperial modus operandi of parking 3-4 gunships in a picket line 15km from the capital ships every TDM will be rendered moot.

Armonddd's Avatar


Armonddd
02.24.2014 , 04:40 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by okiobe View Post
Honest question. How does this work against the purpose of powerups?
Fair question. I'll try to explain myself.

One of the primary purposes of powerups is to encourage fights to spread out. Without powerups, TDM would basically turn into a killball at the center that rolls towards the losing team's capital ship. But because they exist, pilots break off from the primary dogfight to look for powerups while letting their shields regen (or, in some cases, simply break off for the sole purpose of finding a powerup).

The existence of capital ship turrets creates a "bubble" where one side or the other cannot fly. Most of the time, this bubble expands as gunships park under the turrets and force enemy pilots back. Again, this encourages spreading out -- if you're on one side of the gunship's firing arc and your buddy's on the other, he can't shoot at both of you. With multiple gunships under cover of the capital ship, you're best off just backing up and making a screen to intercept their scouts and strikes. It's cheesy, but it accomplishes the goal of spreading out forces and preventing the (winning) team from forming a killball.

Without capital ship turrets, there's nothing preventing that killball from rolling onto the enemy capital ship and shooting people as they spawn, unless your scouts and strikes can clear things out enough for your gunships to set up shop -- but if you're pushed back to your capital ship, I don't see that as likely.

The addition of a third capital ship to each side of the map theoretically improves things by making it less obvious where people have gone if they're not spawning in the killball... but I have a hard time believing most people will think to spawn anywhere other than the default location. I could be wrong, though, and I'll certainly be telling my team to spawn elsewhere if we're getting farmed.

Quote: Originally Posted by okiobe View Post
On another note, spawning into a minefield would really suck.
I don't know that that will actually happen. The cooldown on mines might be enough that one person spawns into a minefield while everyone else comes out in the clear and wails on the bomber, or there might be some code in place to prevent you spawning within a certain distance of a mine. On the other hand, neither of those could be true. We'll have to see.

Quote: Originally Posted by dancezwithnubz View Post
BW actually does something along the lines that a lot of us have been asking for and howls of derision ensue.

i don't think it'll be as bad as some claim.
I never asked for this. I've specifically asked for them to follow Nemarus' suggestion (multiple hyperspace beacons scattered about the map with randomized spawn locations). The current suggestion is still very predictable, especially given the likelyhood of most players to simply spawn at the default location. That's a huge problem, and my main complaint about the new system.
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okiobe
02.24.2014 , 04:40 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Jandi View Post
The fact that they have mines on your spawn zone means the match started sucking long before that.
I agree with that. Personally I've never been spawn camped even in blowout games. I can see that troll bomber who's going to fly on the edge of the map to the enemy spawn just so he can drop a couple mines at the spawn point. That probably would be really rare but spawning into an explosion of your death would suck, especially if your previous death was frustrating (BR into a rock. sadly my most common method of death)
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Jandi
02.24.2014 , 04:47 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Fractalsponge View Post
There was no good reason for the asking to begin with. If someone got killed by a capital ship turret, they had bad situational awareness. What was needed was a way to stop people from AFKing for rewards, not removal of spawn protection.

This change will disproportionately hurt new players, which is horrible for the game. Why new players? Because, before this, there was no incentive to actively lure newbies to the capital ship, when you could easily kill them in the open. But there is now no disincentive to push as hard as possible to catch people as they spawn.
You can no longer use the cap ships as an indestructible oneshotting turret to make it win for you, get over it. If the enemy team has a picket line around all 3 of your spawn points and you can't get out from any of then, you lost the match before it even started and this change makes 0 difference.
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Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
02.24.2014 , 04:47 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by okiobe View Post
Personally I've never been spawn camped even in blowout games.
I've seen one TDM that I backfilled into where we would've been spawn camped without the turrets. I have most definitely inflicted it on other teams on my server several times in TDM. It's not hard to do, and there were GSF regulars on the receiving end that didn't swap spawns, instead trying to push the kill circle around the spawn outward (and failing). I think the chances are very good that inexperienced players will simply repsawn endlessly to their deaths at the default location.

Keep in mind that "spawn camped" before this change was being killed at 11km from spawn, whereas after this patch it will literally be spawn camped, with ion aoe, drone and burst laser fire immediately on entry.

okiobe's Avatar


okiobe
02.24.2014 , 04:48 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Armonddd View Post
Fair question. I'll try to explain myself.
Now I understand. By killball I assume to are referring to a situation like pre-patched Ilum pvp. I really hope that doesn't happen here. That would ruin GSF more than any other problem that has been brought up.
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QuinMantha
02.24.2014 , 04:49 PM | #29
Excuse me a moment.

I'm just going to be over here, cackling nefariously in a very un-Jedi fashion.
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MaximilianPower
02.24.2014 , 04:51 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Jandi View Post
The fact that they have mines on your spawn zone means the match started sucking long before that.
Yeah, this. If your team doesn't suck from the get-go, this won't be an issue.

Quote: Originally Posted by Phatbeard View Post
Finally, the Jedi Covenant Imperial modus operandi of parking 3-4 gunships in a picket line 15km from the capital ships every TDM will be rendered moot.
What? I play almost exclusively imp on JC and I think I've seen this "MO" exactly once. 90% of the groups I join aren't organized enough to set this up anyway. Typically, there is zero communication (I'm always talking to myself in chat) and everyone's playing their own game. This is largely is why we get dismantled so frequently.
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