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Ok this non crontubuting debuff needs to be fixed asap

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Ok this non crontubuting debuff needs to be fixed asap

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
02.24.2014 , 09:30 AM | #21
Well prior to this implementation of the GSF non-contributer system it was broken in that people could AFK for the dailies with impunity.

Which they did mostly because with the staged gated combined with no useful matchmaking balance made for a fairly horrendous experience when new players encountered a steep learning curve and were required to climb it with crappy gear. That some of them decided to try to gear up before attempting to climb it was perfectly rational on their part, and as annoying as it is in some respects, isn't really any more unfair on their part than it is unfair of pilots of mastered ships with 3 extra months of experience to shred them in every single match.

Still, with a sea of complaints on the forum the developers took note and responded, . . . .

by breaking the non-contributer system in a new way where it just tags everyone as a non-contributer and punishes them harshly for not contributing.

In fairness to the devs, coming up with code to do a good job of telling if people are participating or not is not really that easy, especially if you have a lot of other tasks to work on and not all that much time.

After all, have any of us written a good pseudocode for this and sent it in to them? No, because it would be complicated, time consuming, and a lot of hard work. They don't have a magic code wand they can wave to solve complex AI problems with a couple of lines of simple code.

Of course, that's small consolation to players who based on play experience might be forgiven for coming to believe that Bioware has a job position titled "Project Mangager for Making Sure GSF Play Experience Isn't Too Much Fun".

If we drown them in complaints about slow release pace, we shouldn't be too surprised if in an effort to answer that demand we get content that hasn't had more than a cursory test/debug phase.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."

- Zhe Lian, Sage.

Docmal's Avatar


Docmal
02.24.2014 , 10:10 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Ramalina View Post
...
In fairness to the devs, coming up with code to do a good job of telling if people are participating or not is not really that easy, especially if you have a lot of other tasks to work on and not all that much time.

After all, have any of us written a good pseudocode for this and sent it in to them? No, because it would be complicated, time consuming, and a lot of hard work. They don't have a magic code wand they can wave to solve complex AI problems with a couple of lines of simple code.
...
You are right it is not easy. I will give them that. However, are you honestly asking that their customers design solutions for them? Do you contend that they are not competent enough or do not have the resources to do it properly?

They are a supposedly a fully staffed and funded game development team with designers and developers that have years of experience. In this context it should be quite easy to design and implement a proper system.

It is deeply concerning that they continue to keep such half hearted designers and developers on the team. Especially when there are hundreds of developers out there that would kill to have an opportunity to work for Bioware.
Feeling Parsecseh?
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Kain_Turinbar's Avatar


Kain_Turinbar
02.24.2014 , 10:25 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Kane_Ren View Post
There is frustration for all ship types in game, so it shouldn't just be about bombers. Playing a great match where you do a great job, is spoilt by the text buffer giving you, what I'm going to call a punch in the face. Followed by the scorecard with you near the top and the pitiful req score being the kick in the teeth to make you feel like you've wasted your time. Being called a liar by BW doesn't make for a good long term experience.
For the last time - We ARE contributing.
Yeah this system is goofy. I was running from a swarm last night (I guess I killed the gunship they were trying to protect) and eventually they got me. While I was respawning I got the non-contributing tag and as soon as I was done and started moving it went away. What I hate about this is that I have heard the way it works if you get it for any length of time at all you are already taking a 20% hit to req.

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
02.24.2014 , 12:16 PM | #24
The other day I had an opening purple patch while levelling a character and a bomber. Team deathmatch.
Then the enemy camp at their capital ship. Five gunships sally forth and park. No way a bomber can plant mines while facing down capital ship's guns, 5 gunships and a 1/2 dozen other players. - Minelaying relegated to behind the asteroids..... then "Not contributing" flases up. The souped-up scouts on my team start hoovering up the power-ups.

- Final scorecard:

4th place with 20 kill assists. 6 kills. A Dozen medals.

Me: ****! 'Not contributing' my rear end! Stupid Stupid! stupid!

I love GSF. But I'm only average at best. - only usually in the top 10 - But trying to level a bomber with the enemy around their homeship..... I might as well throw pebbles at the moon! - AND less Req to spend at the end. - I'd be better off launching and AFK-ing FFS!

Same with domination. Cap node, plant mines. Enemy avoids, suddenly non-contribution.... Grr!

Really AFK : Sure: Award Zero req, no count to dailiy/weekly, I fully support that.

-but trying hard, with no luckand getting nerfed. ....That's a sure-fire way to kill GSF for the newbies!

SORT THIS OUT BW!

Storm Cutter - Pilots: Karn-t'woom / Indio / D'mara-Nye on Progenitor Server (rep)
-Storm Cutter.

DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
02.24.2014 , 02:49 PM | #25
I didn't know I was losing comms thanks to this bug. This must be fixed ASAP as it goes to the heart of the advancement system!
The DroidDreamer Legacy (Pot5 Server)
Eblen 50 Sorc heals | Sodan 50 Sniper | Trilliant 37 Immortal Jugg | Somnis 50 TankSin
They mark me with the lightning bolt in Huttball.

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
02.24.2014 , 08:49 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Docmal View Post
You are right it is not easy. I will give them that. However, are you honestly asking that their customers design solutions for them? Do you contend that they are not competent enough or do not have the resources to do it properly?

They are a supposedly a fully staffed and funded game development team with designers and developers that have years of experience. In this context it should be quite easy to design and implement a proper system.

It is deeply concerning that they continue to keep such half hearted designers and developers on the team. Especially when there are hundreds of developers out there that would kill to have an opportunity to work for Bioware.
No we shouldn't be doing their jobs for them (unless they're paying us), but I think you may underestimate how difficult it can be to get a computer to do what any grown human can easily do at a glance.

Computers can do addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division very rapidly. Turning that ability into something that resembles intelligent decision making, for instance figuring out if Fliesintorocks really isn't contributing or is just a really bad pilot in a bomber, is not all that easy. It's even worse, because the computer will do exactly what you tell it to do and not the really obvious thing that you meant it to do and which any halfway sensible person would have understood the context and gotten right.

As far as resources goes, I'm quite confident that GSF is not rolling in a giant pool of manhours and money. On the PTS before 2.6 it was so badly broken that you couldn't really even playtest it. That doesn't exactly scream, "we've got resources to spare." As far as expertise goes, well general programming skill is well and good, and there are some things that would even transfer from MMORPG building to a 3D space battle game, but I didn't hear anything about them hiring a large team of people with many years of experience in flight/space sims. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that a lot of GSF's problems come in part from developers learning as they go rather than drawing on extensive past experience. It's even entirely possible that they're getting told, "You can't spend more than x hours on this until/unless GSF revenues (or SWTOR revenues) go up by y." Or possibly, "It doesn't matter if it's not tested yet, it has to go out in the next patch."

Partly it may be a matter of marketing. They say, "Play our great new starfighter mini-game," when instead they should be saying, "Please give us feedback on the alpha and beta features of the starfighter mini-game that we think will be really awesome when it's done 8 or 9 months from now."

By now in the above, I mean late Feb 2014.

Disappointment is partly the gap between reality and expectations. The marketing may have pushed expectations for GSF higher and earlier than they should have been.

The original afking, was a modest problem. The 'fix' has turned out to a serious problem. Maybe now the programmers will be allowed enough resources to fix it properly.

We can hope at any rate. In the meantime I've mostly just stopped flying in GSF and gone to leveling tank-ish alts.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."

- Zhe Lian, Sage.

Docmal's Avatar


Docmal
02.25.2014 , 06:42 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Ramalina View Post
No we shouldn't be doing their jobs for them (unless they're paying us), but I think you may underestimate how difficult it can be to get a computer to do what any grown human can easily do at a glance.

Computers can do addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division very rapidly. Turning that ability into something that resembles intelligent decision making, for instance figuring out if Fliesintorocks really isn't contributing or is just a really bad pilot in a bomber, is not all that easy. It's even worse, because the computer will do exactly what you tell it to do and not the really obvious thing that you meant it to do and which any halfway sensible person would have understood the context and gotten right.
...
I dont really need a lesson on what a computer can and cant do. I have been a professional software developer for 12 years

The extremely lazy fixes on everything lately (not just gsf) can only mean one of two things. Either they have severely cut the team down or they have focused the real devs on new content and they have the scrubs doing maintenance.
Feeling Parsecseh?
<Redemption> @ The Shadowlands
Handrew - Shadow Tank Drewbacca - Guardian DPS
& 13 more...

DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
02.25.2014 , 07:11 PM | #28
Got killed several times last night because of this stupid bug. I had to venture out of cover to put a love tap on a ship and of course that got me killed.
The DroidDreamer Legacy (Pot5 Server)
Eblen 50 Sorc heals | Sodan 50 Sniper | Trilliant 37 Immortal Jugg | Somnis 50 TankSin
They mark me with the lightning bolt in Huttball.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
02.25.2014 , 07:26 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Delta_V View Post
I got the "you are now AFK" message less than 3 seconds after scoring a kill, and then "you are no longer AFK" when I died a few seconds later. Like you said, it's fubared.
I get this message a lot now in regular fighters (not just GS or bombers). Even though I'm using the mouse to fly and the mouse buttons to shoot, unless I use one of the keyboard keys the game thinks I've gone AFK. The delay is obviously shorter than standing on the fleet and I'd bet credits to dustcrepe the issues of the OP and this are linked to the changes in the anti-non-contributor system.