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Game Update 2.7 Sentinel Changes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Jedi Knight > Sentinel
Game Update 2.7 Sentinel Changes
 
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AngusFTW's Avatar


AngusFTW
02.15.2014 , 01:55 PM | #91
I don't really see the big issue with targeting someone to sweep/smash... you only use it to aoe ads outside of focus/rage anyway and you will be targeting one of the ads to get there in the first place.. so whats the big deal? Seems like QQ over nothing to me or do that many people mindlessly derp smash things without actually targeting them?

Regarding pvp.. popping stealth out you still have.. cyclone which is aoe and costs.. exactly the same as smash and can be spammed if you have the focus since it doesn't have a cd.. and i cant remember the last time i use sweep to interrupt something in a wz either.. we still have dual saber throw which is cheaper and more efficient..
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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
02.15.2014 , 02:28 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by AngusFTW View Post
I don't really see the big issue with targeting someone to sweep/smash... you only use it to aoe ads outside of focus/rage anyway and you will be targeting one of the ads to get there in the first place.. so whats the big deal? Seems like QQ over nothing to me or do that many people mindlessly derp smash things without actually targeting them?

Regarding pvp.. popping stealth out you still have.. cyclone which is aoe and costs.. exactly the same as smash and can be spammed if you have the focus since it doesn't have a cd.. and i cant remember the last time i use sweep to interrupt something in a wz either.. we still have dual saber throw which is cheaper and more efficient..
Its not a major deal, but for tanks it will be annoying. Its the same thing with having to target yourself as a merc to use the gun heal. Its not a huge thing but its annoying to have to do so when self targeting should be automatic if you are not targeting anything else.

As for cyclone slash, its a cone attack not an aoe.

Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
02.15.2014 , 02:34 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
PvP and PvE are very very different environments. It only makes that skills and abilities work differently. They could trash one spec in one aspect and leave the other unchanged if it has to be.
They're going to nerf Rage/Focus because of PvP, great, though in order to do that, when they force Smash to have a target they are negatively affecting both ACs for Knights/Warriors, on both PvE and PvP, all specs. That utter garbage.

And it's not like they can't make that work. PvE relics "know" when they can work, a Tank's guard works differently in one place or another.
I'm not sure you are thinking clearly in part. Yes they are different environments, but NO OTHER tree has its ENTIRE foundation behave differently in pvp versus pve. That is my point. Sweep/smash is the foundation of the focus tree...it has at least 4 skill boxes and 8 or more skill points that affect it and are designed to make it a more potent aoe. This nerf proposal completely guts it for pvp and makes it all but useless. Again, I ask my basic question, if the devs can figure out that this nerf would kill it in pve, why cant they figure out that it does the same in pvp. They either don't play it, are clueless, haven't thought about it, or all of the above.

There is NO reason you would take it over Combat. They are taking and taking and not giving back anything. You cant make an aoe spec a single target spec just by making it horrible and leaving it no choice...but there is one, there is already a single target spec, combat. So this does one thing, kills focus.

Now, I am not happy about the target issue, but compared to destroying an entire tree and two of four viable specs for the class (dotsmash and focus), it is the lesser concern for me atm. Like I said, it is their shortcut, inelegant way to enact the nerf...what do you expect, but a hack approach from someone who thinks this nerf is a good idea in the first place. But as far as targeting goes...

BETTER SOLUTION: In wz's, sweep hits three closest targets. Outside of wz's, it remains UNCHANGED. There, problem solved.




And I'll say this, AGAIN...sorc/sages, slingers/snipers, shadow/sins, and mando/mercs ALL HAVE SPECS that can rival or outdo the damage of focus depending on the player and the circumstances. This nerf is COMPLETELY unnecessary, except for people that are haters and cant see the big picture. There are a HUGE number of counters to melee focus players...stuns, knockbacks, range gainers, you name it. In a game where people cluster for heals and for defense, having viable aoe dps is a must, otherwise, where is the risk in clustering for ALL THOSE BENEFITS???
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...

WNxTheMitch's Avatar


WNxTheMitch
02.15.2014 , 03:10 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by AngusFTW View Post
I don't really see the big issue with targeting someone to sweep/smash... you only use it to aoe ads outside of focus/rage anyway and you will be targeting one of the ads to get there in the first place.. so whats the big deal? Seems like QQ over nothing to me or do that many people mindlessly derp smash things without actually targeting them?

Regarding pvp.. popping stealth out you still have.. cyclone which is aoe and costs.. exactly the same as smash and can be spammed if you have the focus since it doesn't have a cd.. and i cant remember the last time i use sweep to interrupt something in a wz either.. we still have dual saber throw which is cheaper and more efficient..
I'll tell you what the issue is. We are now the only class that has one damage ability that doesn't need a target for activation. All other classes have at least two. And some have even more. Why are they doing that? I imagine it is for several reasons, but I have given up trying to figure out what the devs are thinking when they go full nerf happy. You never go full nerf happy.

I haven't seen the best idea instead of this nerf. LEARN HOW TO EFFING PVP! Stop QQ'ing that a class/spec is more OP than your spec/class. Every class/spec has a weakness/great counter to it, which is why PvP is still so dynamic in this game. Smash monkey's are getting so much damage in their smashes because people are grouped up for those smashes. If they are grouped and know there is a smash monkey, they only have themselves to blame. It's like sitting still in an Orbital/Flyby. If you do it once, they should move away. Go ahead and nerf the crit or what have you, but don't take a specifically AOE spec and gut the crap out of it.
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Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
02.15.2014 , 03:17 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
...As for cyclone slash, its a cone attack not an aoe.

lol, I was going to point this out to AngusFTW, along with the fact that 90 or 120 degree coverage isn't the same as 360 deg coverage, which is important when someone just popped stealth or you instantaneously detect a stealthier MOVING around you...so to get that same 360 coverage, you are talking 3-4 times the focus cost AND 3-4 GCD's of time, which is completely unacceptable...not the same, not a good substitute....

But then I thought, nah, that is so blatantly obvious, why bother. Then I thought again...given the nature of this idiotic thread and the idiotic nerf it is discussing, best not to leave even the most blatant thing unmentioned....lol.
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...

Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
02.15.2014 , 03:38 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by WNxTheMitch View Post
...

I haven't seen the best idea instead of this nerf. LEARN HOW TO EFFING PVP! Stop QQ'ing that a class/spec is more OP than your spec/class. Every class/spec has a weakness/great counter to it, which is why PvP is still so dynamic in this game. Smash monkey's are getting so much damage in their smashes because people are grouped up for those smashes. If they are grouped and know there is a smash monkey, they only have themselves to blame. It's like sitting still in an Orbital/Flyby. If you do it once, they should move away. Go ahead and nerf the crit or what have you, but don't take a specifically AOE spec and gut the crap out of it.
This really is what it boils down to....look at all the cc in the game, all the knockbacks, etc. As soon as a focus build leaps in, there are a LARGE number of counters to sweep...and that is what this is about. Pushes, pulls, cone knockbacks, cone knockbacks with roots, stuns, running away, plus god only knows how many other damage mitigators like mass taunts, etc. People are simply ignoring the obvious. It is OBVIOUS that this nerf kills the whole tree, since the whole tree is built around ONE SKILL AND ONE TYPE OF DAMAGE. It is also obvious that there needs to be risk for turtling up in a grp like you are in some raid on a boss....you have aoe defenses, aoe heals, along with benefitting from other peoples knockbacks and stuns that are stacked on top of you....WHERE is the risk or downside to that stacking if there isn't potent aoe that isn't worth eating???
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...

AngusFTW's Avatar


AngusFTW
02.15.2014 , 03:52 PM | #97
Smasher tears are delicous how many of you even played sentinel before 1.4 A patch that completely dumbed down the class in all aspects if you wanted to play the strongest tree for wzs...

They do go overboard on nerfs a bit i agree i would have just liked it to have never changed from what it was pre 1.4.
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mcpark's Avatar


mcpark
02.15.2014 , 03:53 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by SwordEmpire View Post
are you out of your mind? a combat auto crit bladestorm hits for about as much as the new single target smash. as explained before, that is all focus spec has going for it. combat still has precision slash, blade rush, and all its other snares and rootbreakers. in other words, combat has all the control that focus had, but had better single target burst where focus was aoe. now that focus has lost its aoe aspect there is no logical reason to play it over combat.

Ok so one you're saying the spec is now worthless so leaving only one spec to pvp with. two gore gives you 4.5 secs which any good player can get around.

AngusFTW's Avatar


AngusFTW
02.15.2014 , 03:56 PM | #99
Oh no you have to think when pvping...
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Dyvim's Avatar


Dyvim
02.15.2014 , 03:58 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by AngusFTW View Post
Smasher tears are delicous how many of you even played sentinel before 1.4 A patch that completely dumbed down the class in all aspects if you wanted to play the strongest tree for wzs...

They do go overboard on nerfs a bit i agree i would have just liked it to have never changed from what it was pre 1.4.
Played one since beta and from launch. It is obvious you aren't here for honest debate or discussion. Your gloating is stupid in the face of what you KNOW is a stupid overnerf. Calling the gutting of an entire tree, and a game first design breach where a whole tree is now functionally completely different from pve to pvp is perhaps the understatement of the year in this game. All the other classes aren't the same since 1.4 either....so that is a silly strawman.

Again, its not like focus is some massive, better than everything else damage spec....sorc/sages, shadows/sins, mercs/mandos, and slingers/snipers can ALL put up numbers that are as good or better...and we know watchman is not particularly pvp effective...so that leaves combat and focus...now it will be just combat...so a MELEE, dps class will have ONE BUILD out of three trees that is pvp competitive. That is beyond stupid design.

How about this, how about, while in Shi Cho, we get a 75% immunity to ALL CC, KNOCKBACKS, SNARES, etc. That would be about the level of an unerfing it would take to balance out this nerf.
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade.
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi.
The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force.
The Force is the Blade of the Heart.
All are Intertwined...the Crystal, the Blade, the Jedi...