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Game Update 2.7 Operative Changes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Imperial Agent > Operative
Game Update 2.7 Operative Changes
 
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QuiveringPotato's Avatar


QuiveringPotato
02.14.2014 , 03:36 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by diadox View Post
Want to preface this with saying that I don't see why - beyond useless forum whining - the knockdown is getting removed, but if it has to go I just want to throw this idea out there: How about instead of applying a root to Hidden Strke, the talent makes HS reduces the target's accuracy (both ranged and tech) by 100% for 3 seconds? The target would not be able to stun/do damage, but still pop defensives. It'd essentially be a reversed Evasion/Shroud. It would be a unique mechanic with interesting uses. A root on the other hand is lackluster, boring, and allows the target to turn around and blow my squishy *** to pieces.

A 100% accuracy debuff would - imo - be defensively better compared to the knockdown, and worse offensively. It would be better on all counts compared to a root, and like a root it wouldn't add any resolve. Any fuel for the forum stunlock QQ would also be taken away.

As for the roll, I don't see why some people are calling it a nerf. As it is now, I rarely roll more than twice every ten seconds; I need that energy to deal damage, and even two rolls are pushing it in the energy wasting department. Getting to objectives will be slower - true - but I'll happily trade that for a more usable gap closer/maker mid-fight. Ability to escape will also be worse, but if you're using all your energy to roll away you won't be able to enter the fight soon again anyway. The only time you are able to get your energy back fast enough after a rolling escape is when you are able to use Cloaking Screen to drop combat, and if Cloaking Screen is ready then more rolls than the new version allows aren't even needed to get away in the first place.

This said, I really wish they would make the Evasion/Kolto Infusion roll procs 100%. Internal cooldown should be enough of a limitation (I know there isn't an ICD on the Lethality proc atm, but one could easily be added if the CD on Kolto Infusion isn't deemed to be enough). Also, if the bug where roll-triggered Evasion won't purge Madness dots could be fixed, that would be nice.
Yes, both Shadow Operative Elite, and Quickening need to have a 100% proc chance, with an internal cooldown.

Also, yes.. although, I sometimes think it may be intended, and that the evasion proc on exfiltrate is a "cleanse" instead of a "purge", like the base ability. It would be kind of annoying if that was intended, a good madness sorc will already rip me a new one if I open on him and he has a stunbreaker.
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suicidalMan's Avatar


suicidalMan
02.14.2014 , 04:14 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by Korse View Post
  • I would rather the Surgical Precision change not be 6s. Always with a 50% chance, maybe 3-4s internal CD instead.
  • I would rather see Cloaking Screen have a buff available for dps operatives that doesn't require I burn Evasion to succeed.
  • I would like Evasion to be useful against all attacks, not just ranged/melee attacks.
  • If this Surgical Precision change is going through, I'd like to see the Tactical Advantage requirement for Kolto Infusion to go away. Or lower its cost. Or lower its cooldown. Or give an armor buff.
  • I would like the re-application of HoTs/DoTs to indicate the target in the combat log once the maximum number of stacks has been reached when the maximum number of stacks is greater than one.
Giving Infusion an armor buff would not be the best buff since it would more than likely balanced outt by reducing its total healing. Considering the amount of damage done in DF, DP, ( Thundering blast,Power of the Masters, etc) and PvP that is Elemental/Internal, the additional 5-10% armor that they would more than likely give it would not be worth the trade off IMO.
Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
Strena - Powertech Tank Herculaneum - Operative Healer
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icanttell's Avatar


icanttell
02.14.2014 , 04:29 PM | #103
I have played an Op healer since launch. It is my main, and the only character I really enjoy raiding with. That being said, I am also at the top end of progression. With quite a few world top 2-3 kills and a few firsts, I know that I am more than good at healing on this class. The argument that "good healers shouldn't be spamming SP" is nonsense. Obviously I don't spam Probe over and over, but I can recall many a time, especially during true progression with little comfort with fights where SP has save a raid. For one reason or another a tank or vital dps has found themselves below 30% health. I must admit I have let these things happen, and in those situations, with Infusion and RN on CD, SP is my only real option until I can level them out enough to cast or my trusty healing companions can get a bigger heal off. Obviously its not ideal; obviously I want to keep everyone at a comfortable level where this isn't an issue; obviously that doesn't always happen. This change takes away my "Oh Sh*t" button (for lack of a better way to put it). The worst feeling in the world as an operative healer is to have 0 TAs. I'd rather be out of energy. I love my class, and I can understand how in PvP it can be a frustrating skill/ability during an execute moment, but I assure you that if that's all I'm doing to stay alive sub 30% I'm gonna die anyway. This change, such as it is, will certainly not bring down my healing parses by much, if any, but as any strong progression healer understands: numbers are fun and all, but the real question is can you keep people alive when things go sideways, when it counts? My hope is that you can implement PvP changes without taking away a tool that, while not always ideal, has been the only reason I saved a progression kill.

Just my thoughts
Thanks

snave's Avatar


snave
02.14.2014 , 06:19 PM | #104
Can't we all just agree now that they haven't got a clue what they're doing? I mean how long do we have to tolerate dumb change after dumb change before we finally accept that they are in fact dumb?

But hey! On the bright side class reps are back, they were super successful last time.

dkniemand's Avatar


dkniemand
02.14.2014 , 07:46 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hello Operatives!
  • ...
  • Surgical Precision can now only grant Tactical Advantage every 6 seconds.
-eric
In my point of view, this will definitively kill the operative heal in PVP for two reasons:

1/ we do not have any other kind of heal to help someone to survive once low life, while both other heals have habilities to do this (2 big instant heals on mercenaries, buble + channelled heal on the sorcerer), so, operative won't be able to help an allied dps once low life, so, operative will only be able to heal person with more than 50% of life and will not be able to react to a focus change on a teamate (rembemer that the instant heal does somethine like 2.5k heal without crit, meaning max 10k output in 3 gcd, then forced to go for a 2sec heal).
In that form, the heal amount of the instant probe must be increased by more thant 50%-100% to allow us to do a minimal job on such situation.

2/ even more important than the first one: once we do not have any more tactical advantage (happens most of time in burst phases, or under presure), we have only one heal outside of the hots (the infusion, 2 secs). Meaning that one cut on the operative heal stop all heal output ! Stopping the tactical advantage under 30% will bring us to that situation too many time (I kill most operatives with my merc using that strategy). So at least gives us another cast without the tactical advantage.

More of that, I was happy with my operative before the 2.0, energy management was more fun than now, and even if operative was much weaker than the two other heals, it was nice to play, if bioware now think that operative is too high because most dummy players QQ instead of learning correctly what to cut and when to cc (most of time, there's only one heal to cut to paralyze an operative once he's out of tactical advantage), simply bring us back to pre 2.0 instead of doing such thing which will totally ruin our class !

By the way, while it seems that Bioware hear the QQ, when will you be concerned about shadows that are the op class that could do a perfect in one vs one due to their controls and heavy protection they have once they cannot control, resolution is still badly managed, no one can defend itself agfainst 2 furtive classes attacking together (amplified by the return of the operative dps since 2.6) ? It's not fun to stay controlled for 8 seconds waiting for the death without being able to do anything !

AdamLKvist's Avatar


AdamLKvist
02.15.2014 , 04:46 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by dkniemand View Post
In my point of view, this will definitively kill the operative heal in PVP for two reasons:

1/ we do not have any other kind of heal to help someone to survive once low life, while both other heals have habilities to do this (2 big instant heals on mercenaries, buble + channelled heal on the sorcerer), so, operative won't be able to help an allied dps once low life, so, operative will only be able to heal person with more than 50% of life and will not be able to react to a focus change on a teamate (rembemer that the instant heal does somethine like 2.5k heal without crit, meaning max 10k output in 3 gcd, then forced to go for a 2sec heal).
In that form, the heal amount of the instant probe must be increased by more thant 50%-100% to allow us to do a minimal job on such situation.

2/ even more important than the first one: once we do not have any more tactical advantage (happens most of time in burst phases, or under presure), we have only one heal outside of the hots (the infusion, 2 secs). Meaning that one cut on the operative heal stop all heal output ! Stopping the tactical advantage under 30% will bring us to that situation too many time (I kill most operatives with my merc using that strategy). So at least gives us another cast without the tactical advantage.

More of that, I was happy with my operative before the 2.0, energy management was more fun than now, and even if operative was much weaker than the two other heals, it was nice to play, if bioware now think that operative is too high because most dummy players QQ instead of learning correctly what to cut and when to cc (most of time, there's only one heal to cut to paralyze an operative once he's out of tactical advantage), simply bring us back to pre 2.0 instead of doing such thing which will totally ruin our class !

By the way, while it seems that Bioware hear the QQ, when will you be concerned about shadows that are the op class that could do a perfect in one vs one due to their controls and heavy protection they have once they cannot control, resolution is still badly managed, no one can defend itself agfainst 2 furtive classes attacking together (amplified by the return of the operative dps since 2.6) ? It's not fun to stay controlled for 8 seconds waiting for the death without being able to do anything !
Personal opinion: You had it coming.

Seconady perrsonal opinion: You will still be top tier heal, op>merc>sorc.

Third personal opinion: You will still have upper hands you just can't play like you've done before, which is getting a tactical advantage, using insta cast, wasting one GCD to emote, then resume playing. Get with it. Your toolkit is still amazing. Saying you can't save anyone is ... Well. ********. No other healers could spam instaheals before and you will to an extent still be able to. Its only the regrant post 30% thats gone, you can still proc off of hots, aoe, instacats, pugnacity. I suggest you adapt.

Fourth personal opinion: You will now have the ability to actively roll in combat. This is one of the biggest survivability buffs I've seen within this new patch, its going to give good operatives a chance to kite so much more effectively.
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CrazyGreggy's Avatar


CrazyGreggy
02.15.2014 , 06:01 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by AdamLKvist View Post
Personal opinion: You had it coming.
This tells me you're a PvP-based player whose bitterness has blinded him to the impact this will have on PvE. The fact that your first opinion is pure, unadulterated spite tells me everything I need to know about the remainder of your opinions and invalidates them in my eyes.

cs_zoltan's Avatar


cs_zoltan
02.15.2014 , 07:21 AM | #108
I guess that backstab proc thingy is more of a solo PVE talent. You can't backstab NPCs without a tank companion
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KharonKleoni's Avatar


KharonKleoni
02.15.2014 , 07:28 AM | #109
Ok BW, thank you and good bye.
Playing an Op heal has been a fun ride from the beginning(in Beta too), but the last year you have been ruining the class bit by bit! Please stop and I might continue playing!

AdamLKvist's Avatar


AdamLKvist
02.15.2014 , 10:12 AM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyGreggy View Post
This tells me you're a PvP-based player whose bitterness has blinded him to the impact this will have on PvE. The fact that your first opinion is pure, unadulterated spite tells me everything I need to know about the remainder of your opinions and invalidates them in my eyes.
1. Yes I am, is that supposed to be an insult?
2. No bitterness, that was simply your perception of the post. Its simply a well known fact that operatives ahve been overperforming in PvP and in PvE (much more so in PvP mind you)
3. Read 1.

You're losing a gimmick, you'll still be amazing PvE healers. If I would've mained a class I would hate to lose such an iconic mechanic indeed - but don't for one second think you can fool anyone into believing that you can no longer bring one to PvE. PvE took a minor hit, indeed, but your class mechanic got fixed for PvP.

You'll still do amazingly well. I'm sorry for your loss on the mechanic more so than the actual effect it will have on gameplay because that effect is barely noticeable. The approach to healing has to be altered slightly - it will not be possible to throw around tactical advantages as if they were not a resource in the first place anymore - if you think about it I'm sure you'll realize that's indeed sensible.

(You losing the knockdown on shoot first (dont know imp name) however is atrocious and I beg, truly beg, that its a fix thats removed. Would make much more sense to increase the cd on your stun that could be conisdered too low - removing your opening advantage from stealth just is not the way to go, though, if they felt like you have too much opening power ((which you dont, lol)) )
The Forgotten Legacy
Ancestry/Mythology
TOFN