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Mistakes I see daily


Slightrider's Avatar


Slightrider
02.19.2014 , 09:31 AM | #11
You are welcome.
ɹǝʌo ǝɯ dılɟ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟI

nightsproull's Avatar


nightsproull
02.20.2014 , 06:21 AM | #12
I think it's fine that you're making tens of millions or whatever. I prefer to only waste my time on big ticket items. For example, if I see an item that I think is worth 600k selling for 450k, I'd probably pick it up and reprice it at 550-600k. Never liked trying to get rich in game playing the GTN, and I've been playing mmos since 2000.

If I can score an occasional big ticket bargain though, and flip it for easy cash, it makes me happy. One thing that does annoy me though, and which I do think affects new players, is when a crafter puts several of the same high-end item on the GTN for a reasonable price, and then some dbag buys up all of them and tries to go extortionate with the price level.

Gobgrot's Avatar


Gobgrot
02.20.2014 , 09:16 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by nightsproull View Post
What you're labeling as mistakes are more commonly just players who care more about playing SWTOR than the mini-game of playing the GTN.
I would agree with you if it wasnt the same names I repeatedly see doing this. Once you could be correct, but if the same person keeps on posting the same crafted items every day at prices lower than the cost of making it, they are making mistakes. I dont really mind as I keep buying and reselling. It takes money to play at end game and Im just trying to help people have that money when they get there.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
02.20.2014 , 10:30 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Gobgrot View Post
I would agree with you if it wasnt the same names I repeatedly see doing this.
This wording implies that you do not believe that there exist people to whom playing the whole of SWTOR is more important than "playing the mini-game of the GTN" alone.

And I don't believe that this point of view is right, because of this rule : "one's own Imagination is only exceeded by Reality."

psandak's Avatar


psandak
02.20.2014 , 10:33 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
This wording implies that you do not believe that there exist people to whom playing the whole of SWTOR is more important than "playing the mini-game of the GTN" alone.

And I don't believe that this point of view is right, because of this rule : "one's own Imagination is only exceeded by Reality."
Then I pose this question: if those players enjoy playing the rest of the game more than the GTN, but repeatedly sell items for less than they cost to manufacture, why are they crafting anything at all?

They obviously take some pleasure from crafting, or they would not be repeatedly selling. With that in mind, why do they sell for so little when they know they could get more?

CaliJoe's Avatar


CaliJoe
02.21.2014 , 05:08 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
Then I pose this question: if those players enjoy playing the rest of the game more than the GTN, but repeatedly sell items for less than they cost to manufacture, why are they crafting anything at all?

They obviously take some pleasure from crafting, or they would not be repeatedly selling. With that in mind, why do they sell for so little when they know they could get more?
The OPs original jist was "know your market" which to me sounds like "pay attention to how everyone else is selling products". Okay. That's a lot of data analysis that I don't have time for.

"Know how much your mats cost, how many RE you did, etc." Still, that is a lot of date analysis that I don't have time for.

I attempted to count how many times I had to RE a certain armor before it turned blue. I gave up counting after x many tries.

It is a lot of data analysis that I don't have time for *or* really care about.

To state that x is undercutting the cost of making the y product, doesn't help improve my merchandising.

If I had an automated system that showed me it took " x " attempts to armor green to armor blue and " y" amount of materials at " z " price, then I'd be interest because all the data is there in front of me. It's in the system. I don't want to write stuff down. We have had computers for this type of work since the 1970s at least.
Wild speculation on forums? When does that happen? The Harbinger - Fumanshu Legacy
Repub: Jafaean(Arms), Zelgen(Artifice), Espellah(Cyber), Jabender(Synthweave)
Imp: Vindrock(Armor), Antshell(BioChem), Li'Larish, Kenevil

NLxAROSA's Avatar


NLxAROSA
02.21.2014 , 07:14 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Gobgrot View Post
I would agree with you if it wasnt the same names I repeatedly see doing this. Once you could be correct, but if the same person keeps on posting the same crafted items every day at prices lower than the cost of making it, they are making mistakes. I dont really mind as I keep buying and reselling. It takes money to play at end game and Im just trying to help people have that money when they get there.
Why is it a mistake if people like you keep buying their stuff? Seems like a proper business model to me. They might not be making as much profit per item on average, but could very well be compensated for that by high turnover rates.

MadJackJack's Avatar


MadJackJack
02.21.2014 , 08:09 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by CaliJoe View Post
It is a lot of data analysis that I don't have time for *or* really care about..
That's my feeling as well. Yes, I could make ridiculous amounts of money playing the market, but I'd rather spend much less time to make slightly ridiculous amounts and use the rest of the time to shoot dudes in the face.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
02.21.2014 , 09:34 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by CaliJoe View Post
The OPs original jist was "know your market" which to me sounds like "pay attention to how everyone else is selling products". Okay. That's a lot of data analysis that I don't have time for.

"Know how much your mats cost, how many RE you did, etc." Still, that is a lot of date analysis that I don't have time for.

I attempted to count how many times I had to RE a certain armor before it turned blue. I gave up counting after x many tries.

It is a lot of data analysis that I don't have time for *or* really care about.

To state that x is undercutting the cost of making the y product, doesn't help improve my merchandising.

If I had an automated system that showed me it took " x " attempts to armor green to armor blue and " y" amount of materials at " z " price, then I'd be interest because all the data is there in front of me. It's in the system. I don't want to write stuff down. We have had computers for this type of work since the 1970s at least.
#1 it takes all of five clicks (open the GTN, shift-click the item you are posting, click search in the GTN window, then click the sort by unit price heading twice) to determine what the current (low value) pricing of ANY given item is. 5 seconds at most per item you want to sell. Even if you are posting 20 different items, we're talking about a total of 2 minutes to do the searches.

#2 I agree don't worry so much about how many times you REed to get the next schematic. Given enough time you make up that cost regardless of how many REs you did. The point of the tracking REs is to assume data:

- for item mods, it takes 7 attempts to get to blue and 7 more to get to purple (sometimes a little more sometimes a little less)
- for gear, it takes 21 attempts to go from green to all three blue and another 100 to go from the three blue to all 14 purples.

Now how much did that cost you? It depends on the item, but the math is relatively easy regardless.

Quote: Originally Posted by NLxAROSA View Post
Why is it a mistake if people like you keep buying their stuff? Seems like a proper business model to me. They might not be making as much profit per item on average, but could very well be compensated for that by high turnover rates.
But that's just it, the turnover rate is not increased by lower pricing, unless you are selling at or below cost to manufacture. Posting a blue quality armoring at 8000 credits is no more likely to sell than one at 14000, because it is only demand that drives sales; you can post an item for 1 credit, but if no one wants it, it ain't gonna sell. So why post at 8000 when the next lowest is 14000?

That high turnover you see is players like me buying up your 8000 credit armoring and re-posting it at 14000. You are getting 7520 credits (8000 minus the 6% GTN cut), for a ~6000 credit to craft item, that's a 25% profit margin. And I get 13160, after paying 8000, that's a 65% profit margin.

And I see just as high a turnover as you (I sold 60 item modifications overnight across four characters)

jkennaly's Avatar


jkennaly
02.21.2014 , 03:04 PM | #20
The OP is written from the perspective of a high end trader with extensive resources, but not everyone is in that position.

The OP probably does not do very much actual crafting-and almost all the crafting done is probably very high end, with some additional continuous R&D to generate new purples for sale. The OP is trying to cover every potential market, and is familiar with prices across the board. The OP is in a position similar to Amazon-lots of money to manipulate markets, lots of knowledge of those markets. A lot of the producct sold is bought from others who have made it, because it is faster to by it at a good price than make it.

In exchange, the OP is taking on some risk here-the market could shift or collapse, and the OP can be stuck with unsaleable inventory that must be released at fire sale prices.

Not all players can support that risk. Instead, they are struggling to stay above water. They are out there running quests and picking up mats, and then knocking out whatever they can so they can afford repairs and skillz and whatnot. For these people, maximizing profit is not nearly so important as reducing risk-the cost of not being able to buy a skillz upgrade is much higher than a few thousand credits.

Basically, there are two markets: the primary market, where the producers sell to the OP and other rich individuals, and the secondary market, where the OP sells to consumers. While the profit margins are higher in the secondary market, so is the risk and the capital requirements. Selling in the primary market is not necessarily a mistake, if the seller does not have the knowledge to evaluate risk, or the capital to support it.

Selling far below the second-lowest price encourages speculative buying-in other words, the OP is more likely to buy it. And this happens even if there is no demand in the secondary market.