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Bombers have ruined everthing that was GSF!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Bombers have ruined everthing that was GSF!!

Itkovian's Avatar


Itkovian
02.13.2014 , 10:09 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by HoloGrinder View Post
Let's compair the 2.
Scouts can be annoying like a stubbed toe. The way they used Bombers to fix the problem is amputating the leg.
We'll have to disagree on that one.

The big difference is that before bombers, Scouts were great at _EVERYTHING_. Their speed, maneuverability, evasion, and of course Burst Lasers made them the best satellite humpers AND the best at pretty much everything else.

Bombers, on the other, are basically good at fortifying and holding positions, which includes satellites. They've displaced the Scout in the "humping" role and serve as a counter to the scouts.

This is a GOOD thing, as it re-establishes game balance: there no longer is a role that is best at everything. Each role is great at some things, and vulnerable in others (except Strikes, which are decent at everything, but not as good as the specialists, and of course they're just as equally vulnerable).

And to be honest, I find bombers a lot easier to handle as sat humpers. They're a lot easier to hit, and despite their tanking they still go down fairly well under fire. Yes, the mines and drones ARE a challenge, but if you're not a scout they are quite manageable. I've cleared minefields before, and it's perfectly doable if you're careful.

So yes, scout sat humpers were replaced by bomber sat humpers. If sat humping was a problem, then I guess it isn't much progress... but it certainly helped balance scouts and more clearly defined their role. As for the bombers, well, I do believe there should be something to prevent or weaken bomber stacking (can only have x number of mines active in an area, or mine explosions should set off drones and mines nearby, as Nemarus suggested), but overall I think the change was a positive one.

Taleek's Avatar


Taleek
02.13.2014 , 03:01 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Itkovian View Post
We'll have to disagree on that one.

The big difference is that before bombers, Scouts were great at _EVERYTHING_. Their speed, maneuverability, evasion, and of course Burst Lasers made them the best satellite humpers AND the best at pretty much everything else.

Bombers, on the other, are basically good at fortifying and holding positions, which includes satellites. They've displaced the Scout in the "humping" role and serve as a counter to the scouts.

This is a GOOD thing, as it re-establishes game balance: there no longer is a role that is best at everything. Each role is great at some things, and vulnerable in others (except Strikes, which are decent at everything, but not as good as the specialists, and of course they're just as equally vulnerable).

And to be honest, I find bombers a lot easier to handle as sat humpers. They're a lot easier to hit, and despite their tanking they still go down fairly well under fire. Yes, the mines and drones ARE a challenge, but if you're not a scout they are quite manageable. I've cleared minefields before, and it's perfectly doable if you're careful.

So yes, scout sat humpers were replaced by bomber sat humpers. If sat humping was a problem, then I guess it isn't much progress... but it certainly helped balance scouts and more clearly defined their role. As for the bombers, well, I do believe there should be something to prevent or weaken bomber stacking (can only have x number of mines active in an area, or mine explosions should set off drones and mines nearby, as Nemarus suggested), but overall I think the change was a positive one.
This, basically. Excessive mines are a problem, but this could be fixed. Minefields can be cleared, and bombers are fairly simple to destroy as sat humpers once you've cleared the defenses. Sure, they have tons of shields and health, but then they're also a lot slower than scout sat humpers which makes them much easier to target.
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Lugaidh's Avatar


Lugaidh
02.13.2014 , 09:31 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by HoloGrinder View Post
Let's compair the 2.

1) Scouts hugging satellites. Boy they are fast and slick and those Burst lasers that they have to aim carefully hit hard. If you go to remove one you can expect a heck of a dog fight. It would be super fast paced epic battle as skill goes against skill in a twisting turning (don't hit the node) feat of maneuverability and fire power. If that's not your game you could snipe them with a GS. Now I ask you. Is that a bad thing in a space fighter game?

2) Bombers hugging satellites. as soon as there team clears one for them they put in real slow. They don't need fast engines as that would require skill and those that choose bombers would likely just run into something if they where fast. Once they get there they drop 6 mines or a bunch of drones and hide. there shields can withstand GS hits so they quickly hide on a different side if a GS shoots at them. Anything else that comes in gets blown up on there mines or by there drones. They pop more out quite often and hide again. Less skill is required with bombers than operating an aimbot hack on some other games. No they are just there not contributing, not fighting, not aiming or even shooting blasters most of the time. They are just there and by being there they deny the space or the satellite to the opposing force. Let me ask you again, is this something that is good for a space fighter game?

Scouts can be annoying like a stubbed toe. The way they used Bombers to fix the problem is amputating the leg.
AMEN BROTHA!! Now THAT ^^ is exactly what I'm saying! I have no problem at all with the devs putting in a counter to scouts, but put in a ship that takes actual skill to pilot. People have complained ad nauseum about gunships. I've never had a problem with the concept. They hit hard as hell but I've flown one and they are damn paper and slow as hell to boot, so it takes real skill to properly pilot one. Just ask anyone who's gone up against Delphi on the Ebon Hawk server. They will tell you there is a VAST difference in going up against a seasoned gunship pilot as opposed to roger rookie that thinks that just hopping into a gunship gives you the ability to own anyone in the warzone.

The gunship in and of itself presents no real challenge to a good scout or fighter pilot but if you put someone like Delphi in that ship and you better respect who you are up against. I'm glad Delphi is out there because he/she is the worthy adversary. I truly enjoy the challenge of going against a truly mustered pilot.

Bombers on the other hand take no real skill to pilot. The drones and mines do all the work for you.

Step 1: fly to a sat that's already been cleared out for you.

Step 2: drop your mines and drones and hide.

Step 3: PROFIT!!

Explain to me where piloting skill comes into play..
-Lugaidh Shati

adventurethis's Avatar


adventurethis
02.14.2014 , 03:13 AM | #44
That's not entirely true Lugaidh .

Minelayers are fairly harmless unless you are stupid enough to get close....stay at range and you won't have a problem; even a really good player in a minelayer is going to go down hard if he cannot use his mines against you.

Dronelayers are a little different; I find that most of the time the drones aren't hugely effective at kills and generally just "stat pad" the damage meters; sure the missile or railgun turrent does pick up a few kills but they have a 120 second or so cool down and can be killed off very quickly.

The main issue is that people either get too close to minelayers or don't focus the drones down first on dronelayers. The main difficulty I think people have is when there are multiple bombers and they can stack their drones or mines..but the question is how do you balance a role around the number of other bombers you may have in a game?

I've had games of 20 kills 15 assists and 90k damage..or the reverse of 15 kills 33 assists and 88k damage..granted I am a good player..but I did so well because I just sat back and farted out drones all game and nobody killed them!

Kaivers's Avatar


Kaivers
02.14.2014 , 03:52 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by adventurethis View Post
I've had games of 20 kills 15 assists and 90k damage..or the reverse of 15 kills 33 assists and 88k damage..granted I am a good player..but I did so well because I just sat back and farted out drones all game and nobody killed them!
IMO, when you put effort into killing drones it makes you an easy target to other players including the bomber who "farted" them out. This is why I just avoid them 99.9% of the time and put most of my efforts into taking down the bomber itself...no bomber..no drones.

Edit: Only drone I will sometimes go out of my way to destroy is the repair drone..its the most dangerous imo.

Edit 2: In any match Gunships and fighters with EMP should be clearing drones...problem is most Gunship pilots are more interested in getting player kills or find drones too hard to target so they usually don't bother.

Philmors's Avatar


Philmors
02.14.2014 , 07:28 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by DARK_MARKES View Post
Before 2.6: Gunships are ruining GSF!!!

After 2.6: Bombers are ruining GSF!!!

(Facepalm)
Gunships were nerfed in 2.6 FYI so they aren't nearly so bad anymore.

Philmors's Avatar


Philmors
02.14.2014 , 07:30 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by adventurethis View Post
That's not entirely true Lugaidh .

Minelayers are fairly harmless unless you are stupid enough to get close....stay at range and you won't have a problem; even a really good player in a minelayer is going to go down hard if he cannot use his mines against you.

Dronelayers are a little different; I find that most of the time the drones aren't hugely effective at kills and generally just "stat pad" the damage meters; sure the missile or railgun turrent does pick up a few kills but they have a 120 second or so cool down and can be killed off very quickly.

The main issue is that people either get too close to minelayers or don't focus the drones down first on dronelayers. The main difficulty I think people have is when there are multiple bombers and they can stack their drones or mines..but the question is how do you balance a role around the number of other bombers you may have in a game?

I've had games of 20 kills 15 assists and 90k damage..or the reverse of 15 kills 33 assists and 88k damage..granted I am a good player..but I did so well because I just sat back and farted out drones all game and nobody killed them!
Maybe make the drones and mines even easier to destroy or make them easier to target?

Sindariel's Avatar


Sindariel
02.14.2014 , 09:43 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by adventurethis View Post
That's not entirely true Lugaidh .

Minelayers are fairly harmless unless you are stupid enough to get close....stay at range and you won't have a problem; even a really good player in a minelayer is going to go down hard if he cannot use his mines against you.
A good bomber pilot won't stay passive and wait until you shot him down. He'll come at YOU and drop his mines right on your face, while shooting you with his lasers.

I don't say he'll win the fight, but saying he's going down hard because he can't use his mines is very naive.

Jandi's Avatar


Jandi
02.14.2014 , 09:55 AM | #49
I fly nothing but my Pike and have no issues with bombers or gunships. The only time a bomber is annoying is in cap matches and they fly around the umbrella of the cap point but beyond that? Not really an issue because, like gunships, they aren't some evil uber machines of death and destruction and it's not like you're forced to fly into the mines or anything as they have a very short range. If you must fly into one, it's not going to make a huge dent.

Sinapus's Avatar


Sinapus
02.14.2014 , 05:23 PM | #50
Well, I took a bomber out today. Got shot down multiple times no matter how many drones/seeker mines I launched.

Someone was saying it was easy and required no skill? Yeah, right.

(They say the same about gunships. I tend to die more with those too.)
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