Am starting this thread to begin a discussion that I hope will clarify the differences between Dark Jedi and Sith.

As far too many people mistaken angry Jedi for Sith.

 

There is some tales in regards to the founding of the Jedi Order. That spoke of how when the first force users in the galaxy came together there was disagreements as to the path that should be taken and things that govern them.

 

With first Jedi Civil War the Dark Jedi lost and was exiled to the far reaches of the galaxy.

 

These Dark Jedi discovered the true Sith Purebloods who had a healthy population of Force Sensitive.

Ruled over them as gods and interbred with them.

Eventually the Sith culture and way of life began was formed and in time grows.

 

As they not just established themselves their culture, society way of life and civilization but ultimately their Empire.

 

" You thought the corrupted remnants of the Republic. The machines spawned by technology that Revan led into battle were the Sith?

You are wrong. The Sith is a belief. And its Empire, the true Sith Empire rules elsewhere" - Darth Traya.

 

Some of the differences between Dark Jedi and Sith.

 

First of all the Dark Jedi that came after the defeat of the Dark Jedi in the first Jedi Civil War are different.

As nearly all Sith today come from or are influenced by the Ancestory and or Legacy of the Dark Jedi that interbred with the true Sith Purebloods.

 

The first Sith are the offspring and descendants of the defeated Dark Jedi and True Sith Pureblood uninfluenced by the Light, Teachings and way of life of the Jedi that their parents and ancestors was.

Even though the culture and people have grown over time.

 

Although Jedi and Sith are from many races and many planets.

They are still traits that can be found in each individual that makes them undeniably Jedi or Sith.

 

Each one will go through their own trials and experiences that makes them or other realize if they are true Jedi or Sith.

 

Dark Jedi often feel betrayed or limited by the Jedi before their fall and tend to be driven by little beyond vengeance.

Sith take in to account past conflicts with Jedi and do not allow their hatred of Jedi to control them or cloud their judgement in dealing with them.

Dark Jedi have little to now knowledge of the Dark Side of the force and have to learn in time what is Sith know so well.

 

But to mention another point. Jedi and Sith does not just come down to if the person draws from the Light or Dark side of the Force.

 

Dark Jedi is still a Jedi and Light Sith is still Sith.

 

Dont want to put to much in the first post so I will end with a statement.

 

Anakin Skywalker. From the beginning of his training through his time as Vader and death.

Was always a Jedi. He was simply a Dark Jedi when he was Vadar.

Even though he was given the title of Darth.

To call him Sith is to call a Chinese person Russian. (in regards to ethnicity and racial differences).

They may have the same title but they are not one of the natives.

but what if the chineze guy is born in russia?

id say hes russian then

but what if the chineze guy is born in russia?

id say hes russian then

 

lol

Comes down to titles really.

Legal definitions and racial differences.

Being a citizen is different to being a native.

Though this is not the point of the thread.

This sounds like something from a Sith version of Stormfront

 

Sithfront?

This would be much more suited to the Lore section or the Star wars discussion, as it deals with the greater SW universe, not the game itself.

 

Now that that is over with, here is my opinion on this

The difference between Jedi and Sith is philosophical, so a person embracing the Sith philosophy is a Sith, and the person embracing Jedi philosophy is a Jedi.

However, it does not deal with the moral code (Light side / Dark side).

• If a Jedi is the kind of person who believes "end justifies the means", and thus does not care about what he has to do and who to kill, he is a Dark sider. However, if he still holds the tenets of Jedi order in mind, willing to sacrifice himself, keeping his emotions in check, etc, I think he is still a Jedi.
  
• If a Sith is a person who tries to help others in order to build his power base instead of just mindlessly murdering everyone he meets, he is a Light Side. However, if he still follows the tenets of Sith, serving himself first and foremost, letting his emotions to control him, etc, I think he is a Sith.
  

This would be much more suited to the Lore section or the Star wars discussion, as it deals with the greater SW universe, not the game itself.

 

Now that that is over with, here is my opinion on this

The difference between Jedi and Sith is philosophical, so a person embracing the Sith philosophy is a Sith, and the person embracing Jedi philosophy is a Jedi.

However, it does not deal with the moral code (Light side / Dark side).

• If a Jedi is the kind of person who believes "end justifies the means", and thus does not care about what he has to do and who to kill, he is a Dark sider. However, if he still holds the tenets of Jedi order in mind, willing to sacrifice himself, keeping his emotions in check, etc, I think he is still a Jedi.
  
• If a Sith is a person who tries to help others in order to build his power base instead of just mindlessly murdering everyone he meets, he is a Light Side. However, if he still follows the tenets of Sith, serving himself first and foremost, letting his emotions to control him, etc, I think he is a Sith.
  

 

I get that Jedi and Sith have their own philosophy and it does govern certain aspects of their lives and decisions. However adopting philosophies does not mean one can switch between Jedi and Sith.

 

Dark Jedi or Light Sith being exposed to the opposite philosophies don't mean they have become that.

 

You get Force users that can become Jedi or Sith because their path has not been set in stone yet.

 

With the Jedi taking out a bad guy scenario. A light side Jedi may go out their way to save hostages and wont allow innocents to die to accomplish their goal. But a dark jedi would let hostages die and move to put down the bad guy.

 

Its possible to train as a Sith or Jedi but never become one and remain padawan or acolyte.

 

You assume that Sith just senselessly murder who or what they please.

However this is a mistake. Showing "mercy" is not really a trait of the Light.

If someone is useful, either to you or to accomplish your goals then it is not smart to kill them.

 

Making use of your emotions is not the same as being controlled by them.

 

Philosopy is indeed a part of being Jedi or Sith but there is much more to it.

Jedi does not have a coherent philosophy. You can not be peaceful and then carry a lightsaber around killing stuff. Dark Jedi is a natural path that most Jedi would fall if that was real universe. As it is they are bunch of hypocrites. Sith has a philosophy but it is not practical. A group that destroys/backstabs their own kind consistently cannot have a valid society structure or even an organization.

I still think it would have made the game a bit better at the end, depending on your alignment, on which side you were on. Say your a jedi and at the end of your story you were a dark side one. You could switch sides and get the title fallen jedi. Or be a sith that has total light side points, and get the title "the redeemed". It would have had more of an impact on choices and being light or dark.

A Dark Jedi is a Force-user who was trained in the ways of the Jedi but values things like self-interest, aggression, revenge, and personal power; their power with the Dark Side is often self-taught. A Sith is a Force-user who was trained in the ways of the Sith, usually under another Sith.

but what if the chineze guy is born in russia?

id say hes russian then

 

you sir should get an upvote

Jedi does not have a coherent philosophy. You can not be peaceful and then carry a lightsaber around killing stuff. Dark Jedi is a natural path that most Jedi would fall if that was real universe. As it is they are bunch of hypocrites.

 

Sir, you've been stained by the Dark Side.

 

---

 

Hypocrisy depends from the point of view.

Trying to follow a code that has limitations may seem hypocritical from the point of view of someone who discarded it because of those limits, because it seems incoherent to them.

But from the point of view of those who try to maintain it and add unspoken rules to keep it coherent, it's those who didn't try to find a new interpretation that are hypocrites, because "they're trashing an apple lot, because of one rotten fruit"

 

 

In my opinion, Jedi are like Police. They have rules to not harm people without reasons, should always promote surrender...

 

Dark Jedi are "bad cops". People thinking that the rules they've been taught are for sissies. Hypocrites from my point of view.

 

But there are also two kind of "good cops", the zealous ones, who are also hypocrites, and the average ones who are not. Jedi also have these two kind.

The average Jedi is like the average cop : he'll try to follow the rules, but knows when it's leading to a dead end and that he'll have to "disobey" the core rules. In our case, fighting although supposed to promote peace.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Altheran

You should post this in Story & Lore forum. Edited February 11, 2014 by Sadishist

Vadar was a Jedi who fell to the dark side and trained to be Sith by Sidious.

The Sith is a belief system. It is something you are taught, not born into.

 

Being a "light sided" Sith or a "dark sided" Jedi is basically lore breaking and is really only something allowed thanks to the limited scope in game design and a desire to give the illusion of choice.

 

Referring to a dark sided force user as a Dark Jedi is a misnomer. Jedi is a title for those within the Jedi order. You can't remain a member of the Jedi order if you don't follow the ways of the Jedi. You at least have to act like a Jedi in public. Otherwise you are removed from the Jedi order and no longer referred to as a Jedi. Case in point: Count Dooku.

 

 

Dark force user is a far more appropriate term. As for light sided "sith" ...uhh. Is simply an oxymoron. I guess you can have varying degrees of sadism I suppose.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Vinak

but values things like self-interest, aggression, revenge, and personal power

 

you mean like a normal person?

 

 

Sir, you've been stained by the Dark Side.

 

 

Hehe. Of course. Who is not? Young Kanobi was the blandest character in SW, because it was very unrealistic. He was more robotic than R2-D2 There is no emotion, ******** ! If you take out emotion, there is nothing left in a human being. Especially from a fighting guy.

Edited February 11, 2014 by tanerb

I'm not up on the lore at all but from what I remember reading in the past a "angry Jedi" draws power from the darkside making him Sith according to Lucas.

 

Maybe it's cause the Jedi don't want to admit to making any training errors that they call such people Sith, and the Sith don't care one way or the other to argue.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Sphinxes

In Dawn of the jedi the first force users used both the light and the dark side.There is no real difference between the two.Just how people interpet there beliefs.

Silly humans, the difference is that when I'm trying to do a darkside Sage, I can't shock anyone.

A Dark Jedi is a Force-user who was trained in the ways of the Jedi but values things like self-interest, aggression, revenge, and personal power; their power with the Dark Side is often self-taught. A Sith is a Force-user who was trained in the ways of the Sith, usually under another Sith.

 

Interesting.

Depending on if they completed their training as Jedi or Sith. The foundation of that force-user has been laid. So the path they take be it light or dark does not really change them from being Jedi or Sith.

 

Though I get that there is not that much lore and info on Dark Jedi and Light Sith.

That many people think that Jedi becomes Sith once they fall to the Dark Side and a redeemed Sith becomes a Jedi.

Vadar was a Jedi who fell to the dark side and trained to be Sith by Sidious.

The Sith is a belief system. It is something you are taught, not born into.

 

Being a "light sided" Sith or a "dark sided" Jedi is basically lore breaking and is really only something allowed thanks to the limited scope in game design and a desire to give the illusion of choice.

 

Referring to a dark sided force user as a Dark Jedi is a misnomer. Jedi is a title for those within the Jedi order. You can't remain a member of the Jedi order if you don't follow the ways of the Jedi. You at least have to act like a Jedi in public. Otherwise you are removed from the Jedi order and no longer referred to as a Jedi. Case in point: Count Dooku.

 

 

Dark force user is a far more appropriate term. As for light sided "sith" ...uhh. Is simply an oxymoron. I guess you can have varying degrees of sadism I suppose.

 

Okay.

The Emporer passed a law that states all force users are to be trained as Sith or executed.

So if you are a force user born in Imperial space. You will become Sith or die trying.

 

Yes Sith have their own belief system, But Beliefs and Philosophies is just part of what makes them Sith.

 

The "Illusion of choice" is a fascinating thing that only Darth Traya was able to see through.

 

"It is said the Force has a will. It has a destiny for us all. I wield it, but it uses us all, and that is abhorrent to me.

Because I hate the Force, I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, When countless lives are lost.

 

But in you... I see the potential to see the Force die, to turn away from its will, And that is what pleases me.

 

You are beautiful to me, Exile. A dead spot in the Force. An emptiness in which its will might be denied." - Darth Traya.

 

Personally I love her "If it bleeds I can kill it" Approach to the force.

 

However this is another difference between Jedi and Sith.

Jedi tend to submit to the Force when some day they become "one with the Force" "Trust in the Force" "the force will guide us"

Sith try to subjugate the Force "The Force will free me" "May the Force Serve you"

 

A point is a Dark Jedi would still see the Force as an ally. Even if its just a tool to kill their enemies.

 

Jedi is not like club membership. Even if you are ostracized or exiled from the Jedi order.

Yeah it can be said that if you do not follow the laws, rules, teachings that govern Jedi you are no longer Jedi.

 

However whether one is Exiled or leaves the order it does not make them any less of a Jedi.

Sith, Bounty Hunters, Assassins and whoever else is hunting that Jedi. Will still face a Jedi. Even if the council does not acknowledge them.

 

Considering Count Dooku was a stand in for Anakin Skywalker he can be considered to a weak Dark Jedi.

Reasons being that the Emperor only taught Dooku what he needed to be useful to his plans.

And while no longer a part of the Order. Dooku never became Sith. So is Dark Jedi or failed Acolyte.

 

And as for acting as a Jedi in public. Not being like your other Jedi just means you get a scolding from the Council or Masters from time to time. But show others outside the order another side to Jedi. Clearing up preconceived views.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Lexandrous
correction

I'm not up on the lore at all but from what I remember reading in the past a "angry Jedi" draws power from the darkside making him Sith according to Lucas.

 

Maybe it's cause the Jedi don't want to admit to making any training errors that they call such people Sith, and the Sith don't care one way or the other to argue.

 

Jedi take it very personally when errors are made in training.

 

"We take responsibility, Atris, not cast blame." Lorna Vash

 

So Padawans that go super dark side would cause the council to rethink or restructure how they train current and future padawans

 

A Sith would still see a Jedi. Regardless if they draw from the Light or Darkside of the Force.

"Your kind either falls to the Dark side or to a Sith's Might" - umm Sith Warrior Swtor.

Silly humans, the difference is that when I'm trying to do a darkside Sage, I can't shock anyone.

 

hahahahaha

That is because your darkside Sage is STILL a Jedi.

 

Force Lighting is a technique of the dark side of the Force that Sith specialize in and now well.

:D In short, your powers of the dark side cant match that of a Sorcerer :D be they light or dark.

Found this little tidbit from : http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Jedi

 

Despite the fact that both groups called upon the dark side of the Force, Dark Jedi were not the same as the Sith, though the first group of the Dark Jedi were the predecessors of the Dark Lords in the ancient Sith Empire.

 

The term Dark Jedi was a collective and vague name of dark side practitioners (be they fallen or rogue Jedi) that used Force powers and a lightsaber, but were not always members of a certain organization; whereas the term Sith refers to a definite heritage or ideology. Some Dark Jedi were allied to the Sith or other organizations, while others were loners. Because they were notoriously dangerous, unstable, and treacherous, Dark Jedi seldom formed well-organized groups on their own in order to expand their following or reinforce their strength. One notable exception to this was the Miraluka Dark Jedi Jerec and his retinue of minions. Dark Jedi could also use their power for personal gain, becoming mercenaries or assassins.

 

The Sith, however, was an order that followed their code and studied their history, studied their own skills and techniques, and possessed secrets like Sith alchemy and Midi-chlorian manipulation. Furthermore, after the Rule of Two was established, the Order of the Sith Lords was limited to only two members, a master and an apprentice, whereas the Dark Jedi had no organization and no such limitations.

 

The Sith would often seduce Dark Jedi to work for them, without really granting them any knowledge of Sith techniques. Yet most Dark Jedi were willing to serve the Sith, and saw it as a way to further their knowledge of the Force. Like the Sith, they usually used lightsabers with red blades, but were also known to use a wide variety of saber colors.

 

Many dark side practitioners, such as Count Dooku, considered the power of a Dark Jedi to be nothing compared to the power of the Sith. Other individuals, like Darth Vader, practiced both Dark Jedi and Sith techniques. According to Dooku, a prime difference between Dark Jedi and Sith is that the Sith "lack fear".

Found this little tidbit from : http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Jedi

 

Despite the fact that both groups called upon the dark side of the Force, Dark Jedi were not the same as the Sith, though the first group of the Dark Jedi were the predecessors of the Dark Lords in the ancient Sith Empire.

 

The term Dark Jedi was a collective and vague name of dark side practitioners (be they fallen or rogue Jedi) that used Force powers and a lightsaber, but were not always members of a certain organization; whereas the term Sith refers to a definite heritage or ideology. Some Dark Jedi were allied to the Sith or other organizations, while others were loners. Because they were notoriously dangerous, unstable, and treacherous, Dark Jedi seldom formed well-organized groups on their own in order to expand their following or reinforce their strength. One notable exception to this was the Miraluka Dark Jedi Jerec and his retinue of minions. Dark Jedi could also use their power for personal gain, becoming mercenaries or assassins.

 

The Sith, however, was an order that followed their code and studied their history, studied their own skills and techniques, and possessed secrets like Sith alchemy and Midi-chlorian manipulation. Furthermore, after the Rule of Two was established, the Order of the Sith Lords was limited to only two members, a master and an apprentice, whereas the Dark Jedi had no organization and no such limitations.

 

The Sith would often seduce Dark Jedi to work for them, without really granting them any knowledge of Sith techniques. Yet most Dark Jedi were willing to serve the Sith, and saw it as a way to further their knowledge of the Force. Like the Sith, they usually used lightsabers with red blades, but were also known to use a wide variety of saber colors.

 

Many dark side practitioners, such as Count Dooku, considered the power of a Dark Jedi to be nothing compared to the power of the Sith. Other individuals, like Darth Vader, practiced both Dark Jedi and Sith techniques. According to Dooku, a prime difference between Dark Jedi and Sith is that the Sith "lack fear".

 

Fascinating.

Even though the Ancestors of Sith are the Dark Jedi that lost the first Jedi civil war.

The "First Sith" are their off-spring conceived through Alchemy and other means.

 

Jedi and Sith have extensive (but not complete) knowledge of the Light / Dark side of the Force.

Dark Jedi or Light Sith may come to the opposite organization for training in the Light or Dark Side of the Force.

 

Regardless how they are received the individual can be deemed a weak or strong force user.

Depending on if their training in the Light/Dark side of the Force is complete.

And though may be exposed to Jedi or Sith teachings, techniques and ideology.

The individual may imitate these but not fully incorporate thus remaining a Jedi or Sith

 

That is why anomaly such as Revan can only make the "claim" of being both Jedi and Sith.

But in reality is just a powerful Force user able to call upon the Dark/Light side of the Force.

 

And was altered by Sith life manipulation techniques to extend his life span.

 

Another difference between Jedi and Sith.

Is that there have never been a Jedi Species, But once the Sith Species thrived.

With the Sith that are not Purebloods. The Sith way of life, which is more than just philosophy still permeates the individual.

This is why you have many 'Would be' Sith and or Jedi that may have passed their trials but are not yet Jedi / Sith.

 

To address the last paragraph of your post.

Though users of the Light side of the Force can challenge the powers of Dark Siders and vice versa.

It is still possible for Dark Jedi to challenge Sith and Light Sith to challenge Jedi.

 

The outcome of such confrontations coming down to the differences between them.

Some of which are their skills with lightsabers or knowledge of the force and experiences.

 

Considering both Jedi and Sith possess knowledge, artifacts, holocrons and so on of the opposite force.

It is entirely possible for individuals to learn, develop and use both Jedi/Sith techniques.

But that does not make them Jedi/Sith

 

An example of this is Mace Windu's Vapaad fighting style that in short channels the dark side of the force. But to use the Dark Siders powers against them and not fall to the Dark Side himself.

Darth and Master are titles given to force users that have reached a certain level of skill, power and abilities when using the Light or Dark side of the force.