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Bombers Will Be Nerfed When?


Tenacity's Avatar


Tenacity
02.08.2014 , 12:56 PM | #11
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Like, I dunno, flying a strike fighter with EMP missiles?
I would, if they'd give those missiles to my enforcer. I paid 20$ for that ship, I'm not going to just go fly something else because the devs dont know what the **** game balance is.

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Good gods people, I fly a burst cannon flashfire and I have ZERO issues with bombers. If they kill me, it's my own damn fault.
And how do you feel when you get into that team deathmatch where your allies are complete noobs and the enemy is nothing but a thousand meter furball full of gunships, bombers, drones, and mines? It's suicide even trying to attack, and you cant win by sitting at your base playing with yourself.

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All the whiners in the world flock to GSF - a shooter game where skill actually matters far more than what buttons you can push and how fast. This isn't ground pvp, and I am so glad for that.
Skill DID matter, it doesnt anymore, not with the addition of bombers. Just look at the "Bombers are awesome!" post on the first page - someone with pretty much no upgrades getting high end achievements by doing nothing more than dropping drones and running.

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Perhaps instead of whining, people should try harder, learn to play better, practice more. That, or just admit you aren't good at it - because there is no shame in not playing a shooter well, there are a lot of people who suck at shooters - and most of them are also MMO players
My average k/d ratio pre-2.6 was 4:1, flying nothing but strike fighters. I also had a 75% win rate.

Now I'm struggling to even break even on kills/deaths each match, and this week I've only won two games.

Skill isnt the problem here, it's the addition of a factor which has unbalanced what was fine to begin with.

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Typically, MMORPGs and RPGs in general require a different skillset and mindset than shooter games. Shooter games require that you don't get overly annoyed when you die, because it's going to happen. Even the best pilots get shot down - if you are being targeted by 4-5 people, you're not going to live, that's just how it is.
I dont get annoyed when I die, I get annoyed when I lose because I'm on a team full of morons and the enemy is exploiting cheap tactics that should have been considered by the developers.

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Then you get the people who can't handle it, who don't have the patience for it. They freak out, scream for nerfs, cry hacks, whine whine and whine some more, and eventually quit. That quitting turns out to be the best thing for them cause then they aren't stressed anymore.

So yeah, maybe you should just quit if you hate it so much.
I honestly loved GSF before we started having to deal with the bomber deathtraps, and now that they're being backed up by gunships they have no weaknesses.

As I said, the game went from being fun to nothing short of completely frustrating, and a change like that doesnt happen because of player skill, it happens because of developer changes which were poorly thought out.

People complained about this crap throughout the GSF beta, and they went ahead and added bombers anyways.
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.08.2014 , 01:15 PM | #12
I really like how there's things that are actually effective against scouts now. I think bombers are a big improvement.


Bombers I think have a relatively high skill floor- it's hard to be terrible with a bomber, a noob could contribute a lot more with a 7k req bomber than a 7k req finesse scout or niche strike. I'm not sure if the skill cap is lower though, but I suspect it.

Either way, I think bombers are an interesting addition to the game, and I really like something that sets up turrets or mines and demands that there be a reasonably clever solution. I will say that the the EMP missile and EMP blast seem too much investment for not a very good counter- the EMP missile should probably have a lot more ammo and a very fast reload time, especially given all the mine type targets it can't meaningfully attack. Even having one of these options doesn't scare a good minelayer as much as it should.

silvershadows's Avatar


silvershadows
02.08.2014 , 01:33 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Tenacity View Post
I would, if they'd give those missiles to my enforcer. I paid 20$ for that ship, I'm not going to just go fly something else because the devs dont know what the **** game balance is.
So you bought a carbon copy of a ship already available to you, and you fell into the trap where you paid real money for it rather than 600k credits on the GTN - and this somehow means that everyone else should be punished for YOUR choice?

You're the one who wasted money, that's on you. Why on earth you would have purchased a cartel coin ship instead of just fly the identical ship available for free is beyond me - and the reason cartel ships exist, to sucker you out of cash. Glad I'm not a sucker.


Quote: Originally Posted by Tenacity View Post
And how do you feel when you get into that team deathmatch where your allies are complete noobs and the enemy is nothing but a thousand meter furball full of gunships, bombers, drones, and mines? It's suicide even trying to attack, and you cant win by sitting at your base playing with yourself.
In a team deathmatch where my allies are complete noobs, I fly around, grab powerups, and waste everyone I can. Just because they're incompetent doesn't mean I can't put on a good show.


Quote: Originally Posted by Tenacity View Post
Skill DID matter, it doesnt anymore, not with the addition of bombers. Just look at the "Bombers are awesome!" post on the first page - someone with pretty much no upgrades getting high end achievements by doing nothing more than dropping drones and running.
Skill DOES matter, perhaps even moreso than before. It takes skill (or maybe just common sense) to understand what you should and should not engage in a particular ship.

I can take out bombers - minelayers that are dropping mines right on top of me - just by watching what they do and boosting away before their mines can lock onto me and explode. That's in a FLASHFIRE, which by design is best in combat at ranges closer than 3000m.


Quote: Originally Posted by Tenacity View Post
My average k/d ratio pre-2.6 was 4:1, flying nothing but strike fighters. I also had a 75% win rate.

Now I'm struggling to even break even on kills/deaths each match, and this week I've only won two games.

Skill isnt the problem here, it's the addition of a factor which has unbalanced what was fine to begin with.
Hyperbole much? The common issue in these games is YOU, my friend. You realize that your side has equal access to bombers AND the equipment necessary to deal with them.

YOU are the one who is refusing to accept that you must play differently than before. YOU are the one who expects nerfs to be handed out so that you can continue to use unviable tactics. YOU are the one who seems to think that just because you paid 20 dollars for a ship you could have bought off the GTN (lol!) that that ship should have every single missile/weapon/ability available to it.

YOU are the issue here.

Adjust your expectations, adjust your attitude, and fly the right ship for the job you want to get done, or quit. It's really that simple.
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.08.2014 , 01:47 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by silvershadows View Post
So you bought a carbon copy of a ship already available to you, and you fell into the trap where you paid real money for it rather than 600k credits on the GTN - and this somehow means that everyone else should be punished for YOUR choice?
His point is valid. I also don't know how he managed to pay twenty bucks for a ship that costs 1440 cartel coins, when 20 bucks buys you 2400 cartel coins.

But the reason his point is valid is this: he bought that ship expecting it to be good. The niche strike (type 1 strike) needs buffs. I spent real money on a gladiator, real money on an enforcer, and lots of requisition and games played on those guys, the Starguard, and the Rycer, and you know what? They are too weak.

However you are spending- time, money, credits, req- these ships need buffs. I doubt he bought the enforcer expecting it to be a pay to win ship. But he does deserve better- all type 1 strike pilots do.

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Why on earth you would have purchased a cartel coin ship instead of just fly the identical ship available for free is beyond me - and the reason cartel ships exist, to sucker you out of cash. Glad I'm not a sucker.
I think they exist to look interesting. I really like the look of the gladiator/enforcer, in fact- it's certainly better looking than the Rycer, although the Starguard also is cool. I think that the req perk on them could actually have been increased a bit or something- ex, "you earn 50% more requisiton, this bonus goes away once you have earned 25k req with it". That would be more than the current "you gain 10% extra requisition, up until this perk stops working after making around 13,600 req".



But, the type 1 strike being crap is by no means based on it being available on the cartel market. Of the eight ships live in game, there's cartel market versions of five of them. This doesn't mean that the other three ships are allowed to be bad or something- all the ships should have roles, and I really feel that the type 1 strike feels lame. I think some people are ok with it because they view the ships as being "tiers", and the "second tier should be better than the first", which is opposite the stated intent and the rest of logic (What are those ships for then? Just traps for new players to waste req on?). It's also pretty obvious that while having access to an ion railgun is sweet, having access to an ion blaster is not.


The rest of your post I mostly agree with- expecting the flashfire to be able to continue serving as a butt-seeking missile that is uncounterable except by a gunship he wasn't aware of was a worse game, balance wise, than what we are seeing now for sure. The game is much deeper with the bombers, and I would probably say better.

McAllist's Avatar


McAllist
02.08.2014 , 01:49 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Tenacity View Post
I would, if they'd give those missiles to my enforcer. I paid 20$ for that ship, I'm not going to just go fly something else because the devs dont know what the **** game balance is.



And how do you feel when you get into that team deathmatch where your allies are complete noobs and the enemy is nothing but a thousand meter furball full of gunships, bombers, drones, and mines? It's suicide even trying to attack, and you cant win by sitting at your base playing with yourself.



Skill DID matter, it doesnt anymore, not with the addition of bombers. Just look at the "Bombers are awesome!" post on the first page - someone with pretty much no upgrades getting high end achievements by doing nothing more than dropping drones and running.



My average k/d ratio pre-2.6 was 4:1, flying nothing but strike fighters. I also had a 75% win rate.

Now I'm struggling to even break even on kills/deaths each match, and this week I've only won two games.

Skill isnt the problem here, it's the addition of a factor which has unbalanced what was fine to begin with.



I dont get annoyed when I die, I get annoyed when I lose because I'm on a team full of morons and the enemy is exploiting cheap tactics that should have been considered by the developers.



I honestly loved GSF before we started having to deal with the bomber deathtraps, and now that they're being backed up by gunships they have no weaknesses.

As I said, the game went from being fun to nothing short of completely frustrating, and a change like that doesnt happen because of player skill, it happens because of developer changes which were poorly thought out.

People complained about this crap throughout the GSF beta, and they went ahead and added bombers anyways.
I couldn't agree more to your Post.
I'm flying a Ocula and cant equip an EMP Field. I feel betrayed and forgotten by BW.

silvershadows's Avatar


silvershadows
02.08.2014 , 01:53 PM | #16
I have two guildies who fly type 1 strike fighters - both of them are almost always in their Star Guards nowadays.

They consistently (and almost always have) put out more damage and kills than I do in my Flashfire, both pre-and post bombers.

Their use of ion blasters + heavy blasters and cluster missiles will strip a ship of its shield in seconds and then blow it out of the sky another couple seconds later. When I am in a game with them, they will often play support (which is what they are good at) by stripping shields for me and letting me take the kill.

That's how I see the type 1 strike fighter - as a support ship that isn't necessarily going to rack up a ton of kills (even tho my guildies do) but will most certainly get a ton of assists. GSF is a team game and our individual accomplishments mean little other than to stroke our already-inflated egos.
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Elly_Dawn
02.08.2014 , 02:18 PM | #17
all i would like is a position indicator for the bombers payloads when you target them... you can target them, they come up in the target window, but no indicator like when you target another ship... so you have no idea where it is until you get a damage cone, letting you know where you got shot from... a position indicator would be nice...
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Tenacity's Avatar


Tenacity
02.08.2014 , 03:09 PM | #18
Quote:
His point is valid. I also don't know how he managed to pay twenty bucks for a ship that costs 1440 cartel coins, when 20 bucks buys you 2400 cartel coins.
Because I didnt realize they were going to put it on sale, and bought it several days before. Off sale it's 1800 cartel coins.

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But the reason his point is valid is this: he bought that ship expecting it to be good. The niche strike (type 1 strike) needs buffs. I spent real money on a gladiator, real money on an enforcer, and lots of requisition and games played on those guys, the Starguard, and the Rycer, and you know what? They are too weak.

However you are spending- time, money, credits, req- these ships need buffs. I doubt he bought the enforcer expecting it to be a pay to win ship. But he does deserve better- all type 1 strike pilots do.
I like the basic type 1 strikers too, I bought the enforcer for the skin, because it matches my smuggler's motiff. I wasnt expecting it to be any better than the starguard, but I DO expect strike fighters to be on par with other ship classes, and right now they're not.

We're outranged by gunships, outmaneuvered and outdogfighted by scouts, and outtanked and overpowered at close range by bombers. Strike fighters were marketed as multi-purpose versatility ships, yet they have fewer component and weapon options than any other class of ship.
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.08.2014 , 03:26 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by silvershadows View Post
I have two guildies who fly type 1 strike fighters - both of them are almost always in their Star Guards nowadays.

They consistently (and almost always have) put out more damage and kills than I do in my Flashfire, both pre-and post bombers.
This is mostly going to be explained by player skill (probably not in your case) and objective hunting (probably the decider here).

If you are seeing the Starguard as being a better ship than the flashfire in general, I have to question the meta as being pretty confused.

The ion cannon in particular is frustrating with a very low range. If the ion cannon range was increased, or rapid fire laser was actually good at its stated job, then I think the viability of the niche strike would be increased.

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That's how I see the type 1 strike fighter - as a support ship that isn't necessarily going to rack up a ton of kills (even tho my guildies do) but will most certainly get a ton of assists. GSF is a team game and our individual accomplishments mean little other than to stroke our already-inflated egos.
Not totally relevant IMO. The type 1 strike and the type 2 scout have similar roles, but the type 2 scout is mostly better. I would say that the ability to shoot heavy lasers does actually help in the current meta- finally, with bombers around and evasion nerfed, the game isn't just a wad of flashfires versus a wad of stings, with a couple gunships for support.


I dunno really what to say beyond that. I've never really met anyone who thinks that the Starguard is fine until today, where you are basing it on a specific couple guildies and not what you personally run with.

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Zharik
02.08.2014 , 03:27 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Tenacity View Post
We're outranged by gunships, outmaneuvered and outdogfighted by scouts, and outtanked and overpowered at close range by bombers. Strike fighters were marketed as multi-purpose versatility ships, yet they have fewer component and weapon options than any other class of ship.
I thought you quit like 2 and a half hours ago?
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