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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.08.2014 , 02:00 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
...

Also, it's not *sloppy* to infer intent, it's *necessary* since we have no reliable mind reading devices. And while a developer's claimed intent may be the final word as far as enforcement goes, it is not dispositive in a factual sense.
In other situations (e.g. legacy gear mod moving, reverse engineering other players crafted mods) we didn't have to read minds. The devs commented that it was unintended, making these actions exploits even if they went unpunished / unpatched.

In the absence of stated dev intent, you have to weigh your inference of what you think the devs intended against how bad is it for the game. That's why this is a grey area.

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
02.08.2014 , 02:19 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
In other situations (e.g. legacy gear mod moving, reverse engineering other players crafted mods) we didn't have to read minds. The devs commented that it was unintended, making these actions exploits even if they went unpunished / unpatched.

In the absence of stated dev intent, you have to weigh your inference of what you think the devs intended against how bad is it for the game. That's why this is a grey area.
I'm not sure what area you think is grey. I'm pretty clear as to what was intended and what wasn't.
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A: It's a SLAP!
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.08.2014 , 02:48 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
I'm not sure what area you think is grey. I'm pretty clear as to what was intended and what wasn't.
As you wish

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
02.08.2014 , 08:07 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
1) I'm not sure what you mean by a 'semantic' issue. An exploit is an exploit, there's no such thing as "an exploit in name only". Intent is difficult (impossible) to prove 100%, but we can easily infer intent by observing people's actions. If your actions serve only to reset the mission list, you are exploiting.
'Semantic' because it's apparent that we differ on the meaning of the word 'exploit', or at least when that word should be applied. In principle I believe we basically agree, because:

Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch
...(since BW appears to know of it and accept people doing it) that it isn't an "exploit" in the sense of something that is "wrong".
You may be technically correct, I'm not sure, but when the word 'exploit' is thrown around, people read 'cheat' - which may or may not be part of the definition, depending on who you ask. Using charged terminology only serves to shift the debate off topic (which, obviously, something I am indulging in, lol). I don't believe you aren't aware of this. You can say:

Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch
*Shrug* I let myself be limited by other people's limitations
(Especially when I didn't capitalize EXPLOIT, misspell 50 adjacent words, say that everybody around you should be banned, and toss in a few dozen exclamation points, which activities I frequently see accompanying more "agitated" uses of the word 'exploit')
...but, come on, honestly, do you not know what you're doing here? Are we supposed to infer your intent?
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AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
02.08.2014 , 09:23 AM | #35
I mostly simply forget to send my companions "on tour". It just happens.
Then I suddenly remember. "Oh, that would be nice to get that item, I think I'll send them."
That's the way it goes.

However, does anyone know why I don't seem to get any purple level 1 underworld trading material anymore ?
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I never will.
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eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
02.08.2014 , 10:06 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by MaximilianPower View Post
'...but, come on, honestly, do you not know what you're doing here? Are we supposed to infer your intent?
I'm just having a discussion, and (as I've said) if you are concerned about my *intent*, all you can do is infer it.

I stated my opinion (I think RNG list subsets are better than the full list) unambiguously. I believe that "exploit" is an appropriate term (hole or loophole would be as well, but I find that people don't understand what I mean when I say 'hole', unless they understand it to mean 'loophole', and that they consider 'loophole' to have the same negative connotations as 'exploit'), but I've tried to be clear that I am not using it to indicate action that should be punished. And then we sort of drifted into the topic of intent (which I find to be an interesting topic, and probably went beyond where we strictly needed to be for this conversation).

Given that many topics (and people) in the forum are confrontational, I find it relaxing to just sit back and have some friendly banter.
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!
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AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
02.08.2014 , 11:48 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
Given that many topics (and people) in the forum are confrontational, I find it relaxing to just sit back and have some friendly banter.
I fully agree. The Crew sub-forum is imho the most civilized one I know here. Next to the "New Player" sub-forum, which is even more friendly & civilized.
I'm a bad player.
I have no good reputation.
I never will.
Only bad reputation.

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
02.08.2014 , 04:26 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
Given that many topics (and people) in the forum are confrontational, I find it relaxing to just sit back and have some friendly banter.
Understood, and agreed. I'm not looking for confrontation either (hence my cheesy smiley above). I do find this particular forum to be a refreshing change of pace from the consistent vitriol on display in the General forum (which is where I've typically spent most of my time).
Hey, Barsen'thor Bill
What did you kill
Barsen'thor Bill

Zuckerkorn Zuckernaut Spiderzuck Bøbløblaw EddieBrøck SylvesterMcbean Zuck-srw'i
TøbiasFünke MaebyFünke MaximilianPower MaxPower-srw
Jedi Covenant / Shadowlands / Harbinger / The Ebon Hawk / Bastion / Begeren Colony /The Red Eclipse / Progenitor


Shadowlands Reconnaisance Wing / Retrocide / Imperial Entanglements

xSynysterxG's Avatar


xSynysterxG
02.11.2014 , 11:49 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
We do it anyway. Run only the most profitable missions, that is. We do it by selecting missions we don't want, relogging, and one by one cancelling the missions we didn't want and taking those we did.

It's not killing the market, unless you think the market is killed.
You could save yourself some time and not start the mission at all. To change the missions available, you just have to log out then back in. No need to start missions, log out, log back in, cancel missions, then hope to get better ones.
[center]Yes, please use your Force Speed then backpedal. It makes me giggle.
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.11.2014 , 12:48 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by xSynysterxG View Post
You could save yourself some time and not start the mission at all. To change the missions available, you just have to log out then back in. No need to start missions, log out, log back in, cancel missions, then hope to get better ones.
The reason for selecting missions before relogging is to increase the chance of getting the good missions.

If you're trying to run Unsliceable and Watching the Watchdogs, and neither of them show up in missions list, and you relog, there is a chance they STILL won't show up in the list, and your relog was in vain.

By starting missions you don't want to run, THEN relogging, the list that reloads is much more likely to have the ones you actually want.