So several times now I have run across getting dark side points for what I considered Light Side responses. Current example on Courscant I am asked to find this guys mate that has been kidnapped. I find Ria and she wants me to lie to her mate telling him she got shipped off world. So i can choose to lie to her mate who came off pretty desperate and would probably try to find her off world, or send her back. I choose to send her back so she can tell him the truth and end it but I get dark side points for not deceiving and perpetrating a lie that will harm someone? I know this sounds petty but I wanted to keep dark side way down.

Ria's mate was a controlling, jealous *****. The right thing to do was to lie to the bastard and tell her she was gone. You wouldnt want her to get beaten for talking to other men do you? Not good ;o

Her mate was a possible domestic violence case. The right thing to do was to lie.

But isn't that the real core of the sinister nature of the Dark Side? That it tricks you into thinking that you're actually doing the right thing?

If you're not sure, ignore the actual option and check the smybol in the middle of the dialogue wheel, it clearly shows if something is a light or dark side conversation choice.

I think the idea of the designers is to make you think about your Light and dark choices rather than just go "goody goody" or "evil bastard".

 

While George Lucas was always a bit hedge-y on the subject, there is some in the core canon from which one could infer that the light side, while nurturing, was not "good" and the dark side, while dangerous, was not "bad" but rather the Force Users themselves who placed moral judgments.

 

More than once we see rigid Jedi dogma fail and the dark side provide fuel for the well-intended.

 

Now, this is just MY opinion:

The balance that was brought to the Force was manifested in Luke (as opposed to brought by him directly) when he fueled himself with his emotions, but did not let them consume him, stepping back when he needed to. To me, this is not balancing good and evil or even light and dark. There is only the Force, and to use the "dark side" is really just using it poorly (either by outright evil or just very bad judgement).

 

It is with that in mind, that I can see how the story of the mates pans out as it does: Taking away the female's free will over a point of dogmatic morality ("thou shalt not lie", as it were) is the darker choice. Keeping a secret to protect her free will (and possibly her safety) is the lighter option.

 

The game's approach to romance is similar, if you look at it that way. Yes, emotional attachments opens you up to the dark side... But you don't have to let it consume you.

You can still be a light in the galaxy, if you choose to be. You just won't get the in-game light "score" as fast.

 

Similar for the sith that want to go as dark as can be. Occasionally, what is most efficient for the Empire is mercy: quick deaths or allowing an assassin to live and work for you or killing a nasty cave monster.

 

I sometimes will define a character I play in SWtOR as "light" or "dark" from the outset, but also define a "soft spot". A trait that may occasionally point to the other side. Like a sith warrior who might give someone a second chance to prove themselves or a jedi knight who fosters love behind his Masters' backs.

Each can still be a force for their ideals, but now they are a little more complex and interesting.

 

But again, just my opinion.

Edited December 23, 2011 by CaptainMax

Yeah, I wanted the answer, "Tell him yourself! If you're gonna dump your guy, at least own up to it!"

But isnt lying wrong as well? Even those "white lies" are still deception... a trait of the dark side.

But isnt lying wrong as well? Even those "white lies" are still deception... a trait of the dark side.

Says who?

 

Or...

Lies like "These aren't the droids you're looking for..."?

 

Even so...

My whole theory is that 10 Commandment style morality are jedi/sith concepts. Now, those moralities do a fine job of binding a force user to their aspect of the force, but may not bind the force itself.

 

I lie that nurtures freedom trumps a truth that harms freedom.

 

Again, in theory...

I think a lot of people are missing the subtlety that Bioware has woven into its stories. We are so trained by dumbed down, clearly good or clearly evil options in games, movies and TV now that we skip right over the finer points and jump to false conclusions.

 

Just because the man was desperate seeming, and may even love her, doesn't mean he isn't also a controlling and abusive person who is hurting her. Lying and sneaking off may be a poor way to handle a break-up, but may be the only viable way to handle breaking away from a domestic violence situation like this one. Your character may dislike lying, but does that trump rescuing a woman in an abusive relationship from further harm? This is what you are being asked to decide.

Also, people are forgetting a whole other option: Don't complete the quest.

 

Both options do not suit you? Then choose not to do either.

Edited December 24, 2011 by CaptainMax

A lot of the seemingly "weird" choices actually come down to whether or not you picked up the subtle hints. For example, someone argued that breaking up the Jedi romance on Tython was a weird choice and that both options (to lie and let them keep their relationship or break them up) are morally ambiguous. On one hand, romance is against the code, yet a romance encourages social interaction and the creation of a good bond of trust between the two.

 

However, Bioware made it obvious that choosing to break them up was the lightside option by demonstrating that the lovers' relationship has led them to attempt to bargain for the PC to lie to Jedi Masters as well as claim that the Jedi doctrine is absolutely wrong if they can't be together. Right then, the player can assume that the two padawans value each other over the Jedi Code, which is the main reason why romances were banned in the old Jedi order - to prevent attatchments that could cause conflicts of interests.

 

Back to this situation, it's clearly shown that the woman willingly left her husband. To make her go back would be a deliberate breach of her rights as a free being to choose what she wants to do within reason. Not only that, but the middle option also allows the PC to tell the truth AND get lightside points. Yet, I haven't picked it, so I wouldn't know what the ultimate outcome of that decision would have been.

 

Also, Jedi do manipulate and lie to certain degrees, so long as it serves the greater good. Examples of this would be Qui-Gon Jin and Obi-Wan using mind tricks and half-truths.

Edited December 24, 2011 by ImmortalAlien

A lot of the seemingly "weird" choices actually come down to whether or not you picked up the subtle hints. For example, someone argued that breaking up the Jedi romance on Tython was a weird choice and that both options (to lie and let them keep their relationship or break them up) are morally ambiguous. On one hand, romance is against the code, yet a romance encourages social interaction and the creation of a good bond of trust between the two.

 

However, Bioware made it obvious that choosing to break them up was the lightside option by demonstrating that the lovers' relationship has led them to attempt to bargain for the PC to lie to Jedi Masters as well as claim that the Jedi doctrine is absolutely wrong if they can't be together. Right then, the player can assume that the two padawans value each other over the Jedi Code, which is the main reason why romances were banned in the old Jedi order - to prevent attatchments that could cause conflicts of interests.

 

Back to this situation, it's clearly shown that the woman willingly left her husband. To make her go back would be a deliberate breach of her rights as a free being to choose what she wants to do within reason. Not only that, but the middle option also allows the PC to tell the truth AND get lightside points. Yet, I haven't picked it, so I wouldn't know what the ultimate outcome of that decision would have been.

 

Also, Jedi do manipulate and lie to certain degrees, so long as it serves the greater good. Examples of this would be Qui-Gon Jin and Obi-Wan using mind tricks and half-truths.

This is as an excellent point, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. This argument is clearly superior to the "domestic violence" argument -- if I recall correctly, the whole reason Ria deceived her husband was more or less to avoid hurting his feelings. It would be odd if she were trying to avoid hurting her abusive mate's feelings, I think. You're also right in that after talking to Ria and telling her that you'll lie to Nik, you can tell Nik the truth -- which not only nets you lightside points but convinces him to accept reality and move on. It's the best choice, if do say so myself.

 

That aside, the game's treatment of matters like this -- especially those relating to honesty/lying -- is in fact somewhat inconsistent. Here, lying, even when in reality it would probably be psychologically detrimental to Nik, is considered a light choice, but in the Senator Kayl mission, lying (even when it would presumably be beneficial for Coruscant in the longrun) is decidedly a dark choice. So a lie with longterm negative consequences is light and a lie with longterm positive consequences is dark. Kind of silly.

also the OP needs to understand that bioware is trying to set the stage for real life decisions. not every choice and situation is clearly black and white in the real world. nore as it was for the life of a jedi...

 

yes, lying is deceptive

the broader picture though, the lie was manufactured to help the situation, not to control it and to use it to the jedi's advantage.

 

was it wrong to lie? mabye, but the jedi needs to pick the lesser of two evils. its what jedi do, as bioware is trying to put YOU in the jedi's shoes

 

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If youve played any other bioware games, you know this is how they roll when it comes to decisions ingame. lets use a different analogy. a jedi wants to save 40 people from death , but in order to do that, he must inadvertantly let 2people die..does he sacrifice the 2 peeps. either choice he makes someome is going to die...he either needs to find the lesser of two evils, or find the third hidden option to save them all lol.

 

our first flashpoint was kinda like this, but not on the same level as this arguement. the choice was there to sacrifice others to save a much larger situation, but this choice was clearly good or evil. no gray areas there but you get the point.

Edited December 24, 2011 by displaynamee

I have found that Option 1 is almost always the preferred answer regarding Light and dark points. Also there is an option you can can turn on to show you if a response will give you light or dark points Edited December 24, 2011 by NikkiStar

I think one of the more "famous" light/dark side options is the Senator's package one. That one had me standing around for a good 10 minutes thinking on it.