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tactical flashpoints or worst fp ever.


Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
02.05.2014 , 01:24 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by AlixMV View Post
Pretty sure the commenter was being sarcastic, and that the other commenter was saying HM for level 55s--given that HM is only for level 50+ in the first place. :P
Sadly I think he's serious.
(Based on all the posts I've seen from Alrik before)
T3-M4 - Lvl 55 Chars:
T'hana Jugg, Saleona Sniper, S'inthoras Mara,Hannahla Merc, Eleondra&Eleondraa Ops,
Leeonira Sorc, Caphalør Sorc, Kindarya Assa, Leonië PT,
Revuna Mando, Leojuna Scoundrel, Simon'e Shadow, Sileona Guardian

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
02.05.2014 , 01:35 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Dontelar View Post
Speaking of the bosses, I've done five runs, and got the jedi/sith four times. He seems to be specifically designed to irritate everyone.

One other thing. Who decided to call it a TACTICAL FP? There is no tactics, no strategy, no roles. Just straight up DPS. Aside from running for medstations during the bosses.
I soloed a bit with my 55 conc op (and then some lowbie alts in GF), and I do think Tactical is an appropriate name.

1) The mobs don't come close to one-shotting or overkilling.
2) The rooms are very wide open, and there are lots of los obstacles.
3) Many trash mobs have healers.

While soloing, if I had just tried to "stand and deliver", I would have died. But by picking targets carefully (e.g., healers first), focusing a few down, and then pulling back (kiting/LOSing), I was able to win. To me, that's tactical.

I got the Jedi on my 23 Rage Jugg, and it was hell, but he didn't do much damage. So, yeah, there was a lot of following him around (and no advance knowledge of his behavior, so no plan before the party attacked), but I found that, even as DPS Jugg, I could do damage, then run to a Kolto station, then Taunt him to me (we had no specced tank), and we whittled him down.

Yeah, it takes longer than just overgearing and hitting the boss with a perfect party comp, but I think that random party comp (as opposed to perfect trinity comp) does make it tactical -- you can't just use a memorized rotation, you have to adapt to who is in your party, and which bosses you get.
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
02.05.2014 , 01:50 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by AMightyKnight View Post
Just remember, they build this s**t instead of an new operation and we are stuck with Nightmare DF/DP until at least June (or August more likely).
And they couldn’t even bother to come up with a decent HM version. What was wrong about Lost Island before they nerfed it to the ground??

The people playing it were what was wrong. Not that anything's really changed :/
Guys/Gals, could you please start queuing for real Flashpoints again?

r/DPS 4 life

Spoiler

Halinalle's Avatar


Halinalle
02.05.2014 , 02:06 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Adaliaya View Post
Role-neutrality as one possiblity is great, shorter waiting times for DPS. However, why bolster. I just hate it. Whats point of being geared if we are bolstered anyway, and I really hope that bolster is removed.
Another thing is why to take Czerka FP SMs away, I dont want to play my favs with stupid bolster.
Good idea, but BW sucked it with that no level req thingy. IMO game would be better without it
Point is that you (let's say you are level 27) can do it with your level 15, level 39 and level 54 friends.

PaxSithari's Avatar


PaxSithari
02.05.2014 , 02:26 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Dontelar View Post
One other thing. Who decided to call it a TACTICAL FP? There is no tactics, no strategy, no roles. Just straight up DPS. Aside from running for medstations during the bosses.
Just because people aren't using tactics doesn't mean it's not tactical. I ran for the first time on my Sorc healer. Everyone went in at the beginning all Leeroy Jenkins and AOEing like a free-for-all. Well, that didn't go too well. We eventually settled into one DPS "tanking", me healing & off-DPSing. We probably would have had a better time had we smartly CC'd.

They probably tuned this expecting a 4-man DPS group, as they are the ones with the longest queue times. These, I get the impression, were supposed to alleviate that complaint. Of course it gets wonky when you have 2 DPS 2 heals, or 4 tanks (hey, stop hogging all the tanks!), but those groups should be the 1-in-64.893 statistic, not the norm. On the bright side, it gives non-DPS a chance to DPS responsibly, or a chance to try a different build, etc.

Can it be improved? Of course! I would like to see more use of tactics, even for 4 DPS - controlled CC, use of abilities, LOS & terrain. I also would hate to see it become a WoW-inspired AOE-fest, with no thought to anything else.

This is probably a test run of the new system. More improvements will come, no doubt. Including a HM, maybe some of those tactical elements, better rewards. They're likely monitoring how it's received, and tweak from there.
We've forgotten what it is to be Jedi. So I'm going to do some real Jedi work now, and help someone in trouble rather than talk big concepts and run errands for politicians - Bardan Jusik

Dontelar's Avatar


Dontelar
02.05.2014 , 02:40 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
I soloed a bit with my 55 conc op (and then some lowbie alts in GF), and I do think Tactical is an appropriate name.

1) The mobs don't come close to one-shotting or overkilling.
2) The rooms are very wide open, and there are lots of los obstacles.
3) Many trash mobs have healers.

While soloing, if I had just tried to "stand and deliver", I would have died. But by picking targets carefully (e.g., healers first), focusing a few down, and then pulling back (kiting/LOSing), I was able to win. To me, that's tactical.

I got the Jedi on my 23 Rage Jugg, and it was hell, but he didn't do much damage. So, yeah, there was a lot of following him around (and no advance knowledge of his behavior, so no plan before the party attacked), but I found that, even as DPS Jugg, I could do damage, then run to a Kolto station, then Taunt him to me (we had no specced tank), and we whittled him down.

Yeah, it takes longer than just overgearing and hitting the boss with a perfect party comp, but I think that random party comp (as opposed to perfect trinity comp) does make it tactical -- you can't just use a memorized rotation, you have to adapt to who is in your party, and which bosses you get.
If it was a 50+ FP I would probably like it better. (I haven't tried it with my 55 yet) But the hardest part is that it is available from 15+. With a team of semi-experienced 55s, yeah, you can kite things, and actually use tactics depending on your team composition. You can have reasonable expectations of them (hopefully). And obviously, the same goes for soloing it.

But with random low levels, chances are that most of them don't have the experience, knowledge, and powers for that to work. You can make suggestions, but they either won't listen, don't know enough to understand the plan, or don't have powers to make it work. They don't adapt to party composition. They just run in and kill things, then yell at each other when they die. Which means it really is down to just hitting the mob/boss until it dies, while frantically trying to keep the others alive.

The mobs are also too close together for new players that don't know how to avoid pulling extras. A single overload/force wave and you are suddenly facing two elites, 6 strongs, and an assortment of normals. With a healer and tank who know what they are doing, that's doable. With a level 15 sage, two 30ish gunslingers, and a 26 sentinel, three of which are on their first character? Not a chance. It just wasn't designed for people new to group combat / flashpoints, unlike HS or Athiss. If it was, say, 35-54, it would work a lot better.

Like I said, I can see the 55 version being decent, but as I understand it only drops basic comms, it's not very useful for endgame players, and quite frankly, there are plenty of FPs for when you first get to 50-55, and far less for after you start playing 55 HM or Ops. I'll still be doing it on whatever leveling character I am using that day, but probably just once for the extra planetary comms from GF.

I like it as an idea, but I just feel they didn't implement it properly at all. I do approve of the randomized zones/bosses though. Makes it far less repetitive.

Adaliaya's Avatar


Adaliaya
02.05.2014 , 02:55 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Halinalle View Post
Point is that you (let's say you are level 27) can do it with your level 15, level 39 and level 54 friends.
Yeah but I just love to see my numbers increase trough I gain levels and gear, with boster none of it matters. This feels more like party-no real challenge minigame than real flashpoint. But its ok for leveling and it doesn't need to be played , it can just be ignored, so... guess its ok

Adaliaya's Avatar


Adaliaya
02.05.2014 , 03:01 AM | #38
I just hope that they will add normal FPs too, now on, I'm afraid that all new FPs will be tactical

PaxSithari's Avatar


PaxSithari
02.05.2014 , 03:10 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Adaliaya View Post
Yeah but I just love to see my numbers increase trough I gain levels and gear, with boster none of it matters. This feels more like party-no real challenge minigame than real flashpoint. But its ok for leveling and it doesn't need to be played , it can just be ignored, so... guess its ok
They're bolstered for the short time you're in there. Since there are different levels doing the same content at once, do you really want to whack on something, say, 20+ levels above some people? A level 23 DPS would not be able to hit something level 40, and would likely get creamed/one shotted.

Of course this may not be to your liking, which is fine since it's not mandatory. But this will probably work out for lots of other people.
We've forgotten what it is to be Jedi. So I'm going to do some real Jedi work now, and help someone in trouble rather than talk big concepts and run errands for politicians - Bardan Jusik

morfius's Avatar


morfius
02.05.2014 , 04:14 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by AMightyKnight View Post
Just remember, they build this s**t instead of an new operation and we are stuck with Nightmare DF/DP until at least June (or August more likely).
And they couldn’t even bother to come up with a decent HM version. What was wrong about Lost Island before they nerfed it to the ground??
What could be wrong with content that require full coordination put in GF/PUG
Try to PUG EC 16 NiM for example.
Nerf was stupid idea ever but we still have no working system of NiM FP...
OPs
Majority of player can't even go in HM DF/DP what to speak about NiM.
If they make new OP/s on same route - to need DP/DF rewards and be harder they will successfully cut above 90% of population from content at least for 6 months (most probably till level cap rise and maybe even then - EC NIM).
This "crap" is perfect leveling tool... nothing more, nothing less.
It is not for hardcore elitists, it is for leveling majority.
Only thing they could do better would be some forcing of kill order and interrupt usage so leveling ones could learn something.
"The Aing-Tii have a different view of the Force. Not in terms of Jedi or Dark Jedi—of black and white, as it were—but in a way I like to think of as a full-color rainbow."