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DNT Discusses the Roadmap


LordMalic's Avatar


LordMalic
02.05.2014 , 06:32 PM | #41
As representatives of the gaming community we should have the right to voice how we feel of this game. We as players keep this game alive, cause we all know it really isn't the F2P players who keep it alive. Yes it is made up of Casual and Hardcore gamers, but BW needs to realize they need to keep the interests of all players and not cater to just one classification. To me the game is becoming stale minus the rehashed events they keep popping in and out. It also is beginning to feel like how SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) was before it died off.

Introducing NiM content is a bonus but not new content. Saying before they were not going to continue the story lines of the classes is nearly a game killer. I really don't care about the companion story lines. Keeping players active is what they need to focus on and continue support to PvE and PvP players is a must.

As it is to keep our groups and guilds moving forward we have to do what we can to get people into the game so we need to remain positive. Right now, I know it is getting harder to recruit and if you do luck out and get someone you also need to make sure they want to move forward as well as the next guy. When it comes down to Casual or Hardcore player there is HUGE difference and some just like to get by and others want to BiS.

Let us band together and try to encourage more people to play instead of pushing them away but also inform BW there is more to this game than Cartel Market and lame flash points to keep peoples interest.
X-RAIDED
Dravyn Ganderin Serpitina
SHADOWLANDS

MitchPB's Avatar


MitchPB
02.06.2014 , 01:31 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by LordMalic View Post
Let us band together and try to encourage more people to play instead of pushing them away but also inform BW there is more to this game than Cartel Market and lame flash points to keep peoples interest.
Pretty much this right here, the new fp is meh and if BW is taking resources of raids to put into these "tactical flashpoints" what hope does the future of endgame raiding have
<BOG> <Concept>

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
02.06.2014 , 04:13 AM | #43
This year will be just as difficult to maintain a raiding community as it was "in the year of EC". I've realized by now that you can't convince a player to be serious and dedicated in an MMO if he/she does not want to, there has to be self-initiative (and since this isn't a job there is no external pressure), but self-initiative in this case has to spring from the game itself. "In the year of EC" and beyond I was forced to discard my Empire guild(s) and switch to Republic ... so many raiders leaving on a monthly basis a raider has no choice but to switch allegiances on a regular basis. I really don't have the energy to witness another mass exodus of raiders and the road map doesn't convince me that it won't repeat

Someone should make a thread in this section on how to "convince" the remaining raiders to stay in the game. Maybe there's some psychological trick we could use. In our guild we're "forcing" people to become achievement hunters and when you go down the road of achievements, there is no end, it's a wonderful snare that keeps people occupied
The prodigal son has returned ... some people are stuck with SWTOR, for better or worse.

Kognition - 55 Scoundrel

tanerb's Avatar


tanerb
02.06.2014 , 09:47 AM | #44
Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.

Beslley's Avatar


Beslley
02.06.2014 , 10:49 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by tanerb View Post
Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.
Because writing guides, theorycrafting, and, you know, Fridge/Rhom streaming our raids weekly wasn't enough.
I'm sorry, what?

I don't mean to sound like a ****, but hardcore raiders have done a lot for the SWTOR community already, and babying people through ops isn't our job. Our job is to kill challenging content in a timely manner.

If new players want to raid, it's, quite frankly, their job to do the research, gear up, and do their job. It's not hard to find a group of decent people to learn with, there's zarking recruitment posts all over the server forums for this ****.

There is no raid content in any game I've played that is more accessible than SWTOR. Accessibility isn't the issue, accessibility isn't why players leave the game. I will tell you what makes people leave the game, though...large droughts between content.

Nobody demands Fortune 500 CEOs to teach Business 101 courses. Why are you asking top end guilds to do the equivalent?
<Death and Taxes>
Prophecy of the Five

Beslley - dps sorc | Arenatah - snoipah | Nef'arian - dps op | Alexstraza - slinger
KHEM VAL IS MY COPILOT

cxten's Avatar


cxten
02.06.2014 , 11:23 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by tanerb View Post
Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.
See: The tragedy of the commons.

If you favor state (read: Bioware) based solutions, then increase the rewards for doing this somehow and/or provide more infrastructure for doing so. If not, then leave it up to philanthropists (read: people who help out newer players) and philanthropic organizations (read: guilds accepting newer players).

Sort of off topic, but since you mentioned it, here's how to be successful in a terrible pug:

Aside: I haven't really been running SM's since the first few weeks after 2.4 when ultimate comms were vaguely desirable and there weren't reasonable HM pugs yet to do more than the one clear with the guild. But back then I was nearly always successful in full clearing DF & DP, even with completely random groups of pugs.

1. Obtain ops lieutenant (or be the ops leader yourself)
2. Quickly give succinct but accurate and thorough descriptions of the fights before each fight (do not skip this with "does everyone know this fight" and then no description if nobody speaks up). Do this even if half the group is in voice chat. Maybe now that everything has been out for a while this isn't necessary, but back then it was.
3. Remind people not to rez dps. (There's always that guy that stands in the fire in the 1st 5 seconds.)
4. During the fight, when something needs to happen, type it out quickly with /oa (ops announcement, makes it show up in the middle of their screen). Essentially, you're making yourself the sort of add-on fight walkthrough that exists in other mmos. Do this really often. Like every time a kephess clone shows up on brontes, type /oa add. And then when she's at 54% "/oa stop dps on boss" to make sure nobody pushes her while a clone is up, etc.

4 is the key step. Do this even if you rashly skipped 2. Makes SM's vaguely amusing to have to type while doing them also, so there's that.

TenderDeath's Avatar


TenderDeath
02.06.2014 , 11:32 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by tanerb View Post
Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.
I do understand what you are saying, and I don't expect DnT to care. But, remember Hardmode Lost Island back when it was a relatively challenging flashpoint? That was a flashpoint that I ran literally hundreds of times on all my characters. Because it was a place I could meet new people; and if they were decent enough to beat the first boss (since the boss had many raid-style mechanics involved) I would want to pug operations with them.

I'm sure we have all noticed how insultingly sub-par every flashpoint has been since they nerfed HM LI. The tactical flashpoints are just making new players anemic. All I see advertised on POT5 chat is SM 16m ops for comms. How pathetic... Back in the day when EC HM was still the highest tier on a school day when the servers had their population crisis we would see nothing but pugs LFM 8m HM EC - gear will be inspected at the west bank. I will attest that those runs were generally successful. Many of those players were getting involved in raiding guilds and learned many different roles.

Meeting new players has been a pain in the last several months. So many players I used to regularly pug raids with have left the game. I'm personally hanging on my last thread with this game.
<Death and Taxes>
Prophecy of the Five
Devasta - Marauder | Aksana - Sniper | Ainslee - Operative | GalatÍa - Operative | Zosa - Sorceror | Pnot'butter - Powertech

oofalong's Avatar


oofalong
02.06.2014 , 11:50 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by TenderDeath View Post
...But, remember Hardmode Lost Island back when it was a relatively challenging flashpoint? That was a flashpoint that I ran literally hundreds of times on all my characters. Because it was a place I could meet new people; and if they were decent enough to beat the first boss (since the boss had many raid-style mechanics involved) I would want to pug operations with them.
I think this is a really valid and interesting point, and I want to expand upon it. This process worked because there were two tiers of FPs even though Lost Island was the only one in the 2nd tier. This basically worked to segment players based on who just wanted comms vs those who wanted to be challenged a bit more.

I added more people to my friends list (and ignore list) from queue pops for HM LI. If it took more than 2-3 pulls on LR-5 Sentinel Droid, you were almost assured of never finishing the FP so it was best to drop group and save on the repair bill. Still, there were plenty of times you would end up in a group who cleared the FP in 20mins, and these were often the same people I'd whisper if we needed an 8th for an Operation.

With the pervasiveness of 72 & 78 gear and the ease of the FPs, there is no way to find Operation-ready players.
Oofalong | Oofawrong | Incendiari | Uriyah | Litlah & More
Repoofalong | Tuamara | Liolami & More
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You are correct Oofalong.

ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
02.06.2014 , 12:13 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by oofalong View Post
With the pervasiveness of 72 & 78 gear and the ease of the FPs, there is no way to find Operation-ready players.
This is something that frustrates me to no end. It's basically bred a large group of players that are incredibly gear reliant and couldn't come close to clearing content with the gear it's actually tuned for.
Bonkurz

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.06.2014 , 12:19 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by tanerb View Post
Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.
This is a really good point.

My guild started bringing random players through HM DF and HM DP. HM DF is on farm, so we'll carry anyone through it, teaching them mechanics and such and helping them gear up. If they're decent players, we'll also take them through HM DP (we don't quite have that one on farm enough to bring a bad player through).

It helps pass the time, plus we've met some interesting people.