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DNT Discusses the Roadmap


FridgeLM's Avatar


FridgeLM
02.04.2014 , 12:16 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by tanerb View Post
So you throw F bombs to level 50 healers trying to heal your tank,(which they think is their job) instead of explaining them why they should switch to DPS, very mature dude.
Great, on-topic post there. That discussion was definitely the focus of the video.

Also I don't know who you even think you're addressing - I was on camera, and you can tell I didn't say that.
<Death and Taxes>

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
02.04.2014 , 12:55 PM | #22
i didnt bother listening since my connection sucks for twitch >.<... anyways i will probably agree the delay for nightmare sucks.

i dont agree the "split between operations" is a bad idea, this is the first time we actually have 2 "same Story Arc" Ops, TFB / SaV doesnt count, when they both came together everyone in all servers agreed HM TFB was less important than SaV since it was done at lvl 50. and after that they released NiM TFB and NiM SaV later so they following exactly the same thing, with exactly the same split on gear. so i honestly dont know what you guys are complaining about in this specific topic.

just because they are "the same story" doesnt mean they are the same operation and i think what they did is actually good. we will be safe from the 2 weeks 100 page discussion of "what operation to do first" we will be saved of when we get a "hard" boss, Certain guilds Skip it or start farming other instance easy Bosses for gear just because "World Progression Thread rules doesnt count" and then claim World firsts. so ill disagree with you. The split on Operation is the same they have done before, and in my opinion, will help the community a lot more than both together, i still didnt know how we were going to manage organizing the Progress Thread with both operations. and after TFB HM we all know how guilds can cheat and dont give a **** about it just for website fake headline.

So Bottom line, i agree the wait is long (and it does suck) but it seems like they working on something big, if we manage to make it up to NiM DF, that will take the two months of farming for gear, then DP progress comes with new FP and a new story arc operation / FP that will probably be good. new PvP, apparently new minigame expansion, a whole new expansion so lets expect new lvl cap. new abilities. new Gear. New Operations and who knows, they said big news right? there might be some guild features, new class, new race. If bioware wants to do something great they have to come up with something great for the expansion. After all they just gave us release date on what we knew was coming, we knew about NiM, Quesh Huttball and FPs from data mine so nothing is new, its just release date, they didnt give any info or hint about what is actually new that they are working at, that they say its "huge" and biggest update yet.

I would say this break until DF NiM will be long but MIGHT be worth it, if they come up with something great with the new content. Considering the fail ESO and Wildstar will be IMO, i dont see much competition, WStar is just a hype because they say "70% of the devs are working on End game" while the rest of the game sucks, once their operations open we will see if it is a hype or not, also the 40 man stuff will take way more WoW players than Swtor, so i dont see neither of this games being a threat at all for Swtor i see everyone that post "Wildstar is looking really good" coming 2 months later the same way they did with GW2 and FF. Swtor has a very unique game style with Stories and voiced quests, Legacy and Alts that raised the bar very high in this aspect, after you play in Wstar beta or watch stream, the first thing you think is "how am i going to lvl to 50 with this crap", no story, no voice, repetitive quests. So the Core Swtor community, wants Swtor Content, not a new game :S.
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

FridgeLM's Avatar


FridgeLM
02.04.2014 , 01:19 PM | #23
So in any topic even tangentially related to DNT, are you going to constantly, literally constantly, bring up how butthurt you are about TFB?

Because you're getting really tiresome. Nobody cheated. News posts are not "fake." Forum thread rules do not invalidate kills that actually happened. It's attitudes like yours that make me, and many others in DNT, dismissive of progress tracker threads in general. "Oh you guys switched instances to kill Tyrans instead of Draxus and we've since found out Draxus is harder so your kill doesn't count." That's basically the attitude going around and it's really really stupid.

Unless somebody literally cheats during a boss fight by exploiting game mechanics in a manner unintended by the designers, we feel their kills should count. i.e. if, say, they find a way to burn Tyrans with his own inferno or whatever. Any other rules represent the threat of corruption in the system - in my opinion, the reason you and others like you feel the way you do is because you want to delegitimize actual competition.

If you'd just adopt our attitude towards progress you would never have to engage in a stupid discussion of what operation to do first. You know, when Burning Crusade released there were two entire tiers available at the new max level and the top tier had two separate instances with parallel progression. Somehow, the WoW community was able to make sense of it. SWTOR's PvE community needs to get on the level of maturity of 2007's WoW community.

The split is not the same and the previous split wasn't good either. It's just artificial stretching of content and it's insulting to our intelligence to think we're going to be satisfied with dribbles of content that will, by June, be eight months old with an extra mechanic or two and more HP/Damage.
<Death and Taxes>

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
02.04.2014 , 01:45 PM | #24
At around 25m you made really good points that I completely agree with; having no new SM/HM raids before the next expansion is extremely risky for the health of the game.

My raid team is a perfect example here. Due to turnover, holidays, and generally just being quite a bit more casual than DNT and other competitive guilds, we have finally within the last few weeks started to get full clears of both DF and DP HM. So your guildies would call us sh*tties, a term which I assume is used affectionately. :-)

When NiM arrives, we will certainly poke our heads in, but I don't honestly expect us to clear them in any short amount of time, and quite likely won't do so before the next tier of HM gear is out. So we will go in, hit a wall, kick it down to HM and clear until we get to an easier boss, or just full clear so we have done something, anything, as a team for the week.

But that isn't exactly going to be interesting for us, and I don't see how I can generate any level of enthusiasm for our team given the current plans. Flashpoints have always been pretty easy, and never part of the endgame gearing progression. While they can be an interesting diversion between raids, they are not a replacement for them. At least the hardcore raiders will have some new mechanics to chew on for a couple of weeks, and a new tier of gear to progress to. As bleak as the roadmap is for you, it's even worse on this side of the fence. The only things I can hope for is that the new Korriban/Tython FPs are as difficult as LI was at launch, and that the expansion is no later than October.

So like you, I expect a lot of people are going to have to question why they are continuing to subscribe when there is nothing new or interesting to do. Up until this roadmap, I had intended to check out Wildstar, but keep raiding in ToR. Now, I just don't know.

tanerb's Avatar


tanerb
02.04.2014 , 02:07 PM | #25
Based on the latest EA earnings report majority of this game's revenue comes from Cartel Market. I believe people whop mostly spend money in Cartel Market is the lowest level casual player who is attached to Star Wars concept/brand and prefer to play only easiest content. Bioware now is shaping up the game for that audience. Those guys like to play dailies, Gree, Rahgoul type of events. They don't even play FPs because they do not know how to tank, heal or effective DPS, hence the role neutral FPs.

It maybe hard to accept but this is not a game for hardcore raider. (Darn it is not even for an amateur raider) This game will be dumbed down with one purpose, milking the CM spending audience.

cxten's Avatar


cxten
02.04.2014 , 02:56 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by tanerb View Post
I believe people whop mostly spend money in Cartel Market is the lowest level casual player who is attached to Star Wars concept/brand and prefer to play only easiest content.
I don't think this is correct. In my experience, there are people at all levels (of clearing PVE group content, say, as that's what this thread is about) who spend lots on the CM, and people at all levels who steer clear.

I don't know the percentages of different populations, but I'd assume anyone who with any regularity clears any level of op would be retained longer with more ops. What makes business sense, I admit I don't know, but I'd guess there's a sizable population who, if you removed the various things to work on / aspire to in terms of clearing content (and this is varied and different for players at different pve-group-content levels), would no longer stick around.

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
02.04.2014 , 03:05 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by tanerb View Post
Based on the latest EA earnings report majority of this game's revenue comes from Cartel Market. I believe people whop mostly spend money in Cartel Market is the lowest level casual player who is attached to Star Wars concept/brand and prefer to play only easiest content.
I disagree. Only Bioware would have the actual data, but I expect most casual F2P players are only going to buy the bare minimum from the CM - character slots, quick bars, artifact gear and escrow unlocks, etc. Maybe an occasional unlock for an operation. But I'd be shocked if F2P accounts spend more than $10/mo on the game on average.

The subscribers who spend a hundred of hours or more per month playing various alts are the ones most likely to want the latest CM mounts, emotes, chairs, gadgets, and gear. Much like taxes, I'd guess 80% of the CM revenue is generated by 20% of the players. I know in my own guild, there are players who spend (or used to, anyway) $50 to $80/mo in the CM beyond their subscription fee.

My question is, will GSF, NiM DF/DP, a new WZ, and 2-3 new FPs enough to keep that 20% happy and playing for the next 6 to 8 months? Bioware is pretty much betting the farm that it will be. GSF is certainly popular, the statistics from torstatus show a small, stable increase in activity since early access went live, excluding the randomness of the holidays. So maybe they are right, I dunno.

tanerb's Avatar


tanerb
02.04.2014 , 03:24 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by NoFishing View Post
I disagree. Only Bioware would have the actual data, but I expect most casual F2P players are only going to buy the bare minimum from the CM - character slots, quick bars, artifact gear and escrow unlocks, etc. Maybe an occasional unlock for an operation. But I'd be shocked if F2P accounts spend more than $10/mo on the game on average.

When I say casual players I do not mean f2p but I believe there is a significant portion of subs who are casual players, not doing end game content (ops or hm fps) leveling alts and mostly playing the game as a single player game. you guys I think underestimate the barrier of entering into an ops group even with a guild support. I know a lot of people in my guild don't do any ops or hard mode fps.

Treeba's Avatar


Treeba
02.04.2014 , 03:33 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by tanerb View Post

It maybe hard to accept but this is not a game for hardcore raider. (Darn it is not even for an amateur raider) This game will be dumbed down with one purpose, milking the CM spending audience.
I don't think it's quite that dramatic, but you probably have the right overall idea. They are clearly making money off the CM, but it seems like they are mostly still working with a skeleton crew developer team. They just haven't put money into rehiring(enough) after their mass layoffs. Now we have a relatively small team of developers trying to continue making content for a huge WoW size MMO. They just don't have the resources to keep up. They either need to focus on a smaller number of things or hire more people.

We just don't know if they are just being cautious with development for the game or if ultimately they are happy milking the CM while doing a slow-drip content release schedule. EA ultimately holds the keys...

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
02.04.2014 , 03:49 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by tanerb View Post
When I say casual players I do not mean f2p but I believe there is a significant portion of subs who are casual players, not doing end game content (ops or hm fps) leveling alts and mostly playing the game as a single player game. you guys I think underestimate the barrier of entering into an ops group even with a guild support. I know a lot of people in my guild don't do any ops or hard mode fps.
Ah yes, I misunderstood you. Sorry.

I don't have a good sense for how many people avoid anything other than the solo leveling content. I'd like to believe that the SM ops are approachable enough that anyone with any interest in them at all would join one of the dozens of pug groups that form each night.