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The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
02.02.2014 , 01:48 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
*facedesks multiple times*
It was an example.
Well either there is light underneath an inersmountable amount of dark that people cant reach it with out protection from that dark or she cant pull on the light regardless of what protection she has. You cant pull on whats not there. She pulled on it.... thus its there, just under a crud ton of dark. Like a flickering candle so far away in the abyss of darkness its light is lost to all those on the surface.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.02.2014 , 05:23 PM | #142
A pseudo-state of Oneness, Tune. Moving Meditation allowed her to fully concentrate on the battle. Anakin Skywalker does the same when he is fixing droids, starfighters, etc.

Edit: Whoops. Mis-read. Disregard the above.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
02.02.2014 , 05:51 PM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
I am not ignoring anything look.

"She was protected by her WOUND IN THE FORCE, Malachor V is also a WOUND IN THE FORCE, it COULD NOT drain another WOUND IN THE FORCE, she still however felt the anguish of the people dying there and that effected her mentally.

HOWEVER, the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide clearly states that when she reached the Trayus Academy she was able to center herself using Moving Meditation, by doing this she could shrug off the effects that she had to wade through, she entered a state of enlightenment(which is basically a version of Oneness with the Light Side) which allowed her to defeat the masses of Triumvirate forces being empowered by the Dark Side energies perpetuated by the planet."

Clearly this states protected by the wound.... awesome... now it said she was able to center herself with moving Meditation and ignore the affects. Which affects? I am assuming we are talking about the Nausea which again was caused by her sensing the death and desolation on the planet, not the Nexus itself. And then the issue comes in with the "version of Oneness" the problem means that her defeating the Triumviate is now subject to the oneness rule when it comes to talking about power. It cant really be counted as a state of oneness is always temporary.

As far as i have seen people have been able to call on the force at Kaas they are just highly weakened. Kira after all did fight off several sith on the planet with the lightside so. Its not gone just diminished. The rest of the stuff at Kaas I get I never for a second believed Meetra was at full strength on Kaas, it was the events at malachor that had me confused.


let me see if i cant clarify something. Even if she was affected by malachor and was able to beat the sith Their regardless of that, it does not say that her fight would have NOT gone better against Nyriss had she not been on Kaas. If she wasnt on Kaas or wasnt weakened she likely could have beaten Nyriss, but if she was affected by Malachor then Traya and Sion were weaker then Nyriss. The only thing that is preventing that analysis from being my ACTUAL belief are 2 fold.

1. The Idea that the Wound did protect her from pretty much everything except her own senses, thus her need for Moving Meditation to protect her form what she sensed on the planet.

2. She achieved a state of oneness, even if the planet was affecting her, a state of oneness is more then enough to overcome anything, unfortunately though that negates her feats on that planet.
The mental effects of revisiting the most horrifying place in her life and confronting it was an obstacle she defeated by using Moving Meditation, there isn't simply ONE effect of Malachor, there are four in total: the gravity, the spirits, the nexus, and the draining effect.

When she found shelter she no longer suffered from the first, the latter two had no effect on her however she could not help but sense the screams and agony of the spirits of the dead stuck there in a perpetual circle that didn't end until the planet was blown up.

By concentrating and achieving a state of Moving Meditation she could fully concentrate on battle and achieved her enlightened state, which is not the same as achieving a moment of Oneness, I quite clearly made the differentiation, it is more like a partial state of communion with the Force, she opened herself up to it and allowed it to guide her.

She could do this at any moment she needed as long as she could center herself and focus on peace and serenity, you can't dismiss it as a random act of the Force because it's something she controls, the difference is great and she was not the only Jedi who could do this.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.02.2014 , 05:54 PM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I'm trying to figure out why this argument is necessary.
It is indeed starting to grow both tiresome and time-consuming, so I'll respond to what I feel it important.

1. The difference between the impact a dark side nexus had on Yoda and the Exile are very different indeed. Yoda upon approaching the planet found himself incapable of using the Force to a proper extent. Meetra on the other hand only felt nauseuous and was seemingly fully capable of drawing on the light side of the Force. Huge difference.

2. Just because a planet is steeped in the dark side does not infer that the light side does not exist there. Light and dark are part of the same thing - the Force. They are a singular entity, what defines light and dark is the way in which you use it, either with "positive" emotions of "negative emotions" - but in the end everyone drinks from the same stream.

Given that, as long as the Force is present on Malachor V, the light side of the Force can still be called upon. Because all that is doing is drawing on the Force positively. Light and dark are not separate entities or energies. But of course, the dark side presence acts as a barrier, a maelstrom of negative emotions and dark side power, so it is very difficult to center oneself, block out the negative emotions, and draw on the light, the dark side washes over you.

But the light is always there, always. Unless there is a total absence of the Force.

3. Concerning what the Exile was and was not protected from. Our sources are not complete but I would make the following assertions. The Exile was immune to Malachor's draining powers by way of being a wound in the Force, in a similar manner that she was immune to Nihilus power, she therefore did not have her power sapped away.

The Exile was semi-immune to the effects of dark side corruption. Semi because being a wound in the Force would theoretically prevent the dark side presence from flowing through her, as their is no Force presence to be flown through, but she would still be able to sense the negative emotions and dark side presence, which would have hampered her ability to concentrate. However she overcame this by entering a state of moving meditation.

On Kaas however, without a wound, and likely weakened by Nathema, the dark side would have washed over her quite totally and she would have found it even harder to overcome its power and achieve unity with the light. As many Force Users such as Yoda, Jaina, Ben and even Luke Skywalker himself found when they approached the world.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.02.2014 , 05:58 PM | #145
Any further thoughts on the article at hand, or any for that matter?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.02.2014 , 06:00 PM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
If she wasnt on Kaas or wasnt weakened she likely could have beaten Nyriss, but if she was affected by Malachor then Traya and Sion were weaker then Nyriss.
To be quite honest, I think Nyriss' defeat at the hands of Revan proves her own incompetence. This is the same Revan who was significantly challenged by Darth Malak and would have lost if he did not stop Malak using the Star Forge.

And yeah, in hindsight I think Malak should have won the fight against Nyriss...

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
02.02.2014 , 06:01 PM | #147
I suspect Traya is more powerful, I think her knowledge gives her a massive advantage over a lot of other Sith Lords throughout history, techniques such as Dark Transfer, etc... are extremely potent tools.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.02.2014 , 06:07 PM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
I suspect Traya is more powerful, I think her knowledge gives her a massive advantage over a lot of other Sith Lords throughout history, techniques such as Dark Transfer, etc... are extremely potent tools.
Dark Transfer? I'm not sure Traya could wield that power...

On the topic of Traya, Article 3!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
02.02.2014 , 06:10 PM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Any further thoughts on the article at hand, or any for that matter?
I don't know. Malgus has more devastating (standard) abilities, but Traya has a better track record against Force users. I would have to go with Traya because of her wider mastery of esoteric powers that have proven more devastating than most of what Malgus can do.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

And yeah, in hindsight I think Malak should have won the fight against Nyriss...
Hindsight is 20/20, I concur.

Edit: And when are you going to address post #29? I feel I made some good points.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
02.02.2014 , 06:12 PM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Dark Transfer? I'm not sure Traya could wield that power...

On the topic of Traya, Article 3!
Force Drain, Dark Healing and Dark Transfer are all part of her repertoire, not only do we see her bring people back from the dead in the game, these are all listed as abilities she used by the KotOR CG.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order