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Looks like a big point of TOR has been destroyed...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Looks like a big point of TOR has been destroyed...

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.31.2014 , 04:32 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
We still do not know if Moriband is even referring to Korriban or is a totally different planet that is considered hom to a different Sith Empire. Korriban was THE birthplace/home-world of the Sith but not the only planet to be called the home-world. We need to learn more before all this doom and gloom talk starts.

And TCW is a great show and can change things in the EU because, according to the old hierarchy system, it was a higher level of canon. The only things it could not supersede were the original six films. Everyone needs to calm down and wait for official word.
If its not Korriban then its an exact replica.

Really I hope this is all just a big misunderstanding, Korriban is my favourite planet and I'd hate to see it replaced or degraded. And I can just imagine that this arc is going to go plodding about punching plot holes everywhere.

God knows what they have in store for Tython...

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
01.31.2014 , 04:48 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
If its not Korriban then its an exact replica.

Really I hope this is all just a big misunderstanding, Korriban is my favourite planet and I'd hate to see it replaced or degraded. And I can just imagine that this arc is going to go plodding about punching plot holes everywhere.

God knows what they have in store for Tython...
Push comes to shove (and as long as they don't do any more extreme retconning in the actual episode like having the Sith species be shown as 12-foot tall blue-skinned aliens with four arms) the Story Team can just work around it the way they did around the Calamari/Dac/Mon Calamari naming confusion or with Imperial Center/Coruscant, or Hutta/Nal Hutta: different names for the same planet that were used by different people or at different times.

Now, whether or not Ryloth is tidally locked... that's a bit harder to reconcile.
Given the choice whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to challenge the fates for another throw, a better throw, against one's destiny, what was a king to do?
But does one ever truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
~Kain

Genghistwelve's Avatar


Genghistwelve
01.31.2014 , 11:39 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Jandi View Post
Yeah I don't think you get the issue here, like, at all. Ziost and Kaas has never been considered to be THE Sith homeworld, simply Sith worlds steeped in the dark side and a part of the first Empire. Korriban is the actual birth place, this has never been in question. Show me a source that says otherwise.

You can't, because there isn't one....
It is posts like this that bring a smile to the internet gods. Such information is so very easy to source.

Dromund Kaas is stated by the novel's omnipotent narrator actually as being more than a mere homeworld in The Old Republic: Revan novel: "The decisive actions of the Emperor had saved them. He had led the remaining Sith into the unexplored regions of the galaxy, a decades-long flight that ended only when they rediscovered and reclaimed Dromund Kaas, their long-lost ancestral home." (Pgs. 127-128). Interesting in that this passage comes not as a quote by either Scourge or Nyriss in their conversation, but as background to inform us -- the reader. There's no reason to suggest this third-person omnipotent narrator is lying to us (for whatever reason).

Ziost, of course also has a storied past. In Dark Horse Comics' original "Tales of the Jedi" series, particularly the Sith origin" series "Golden Age of the Sith," Korriban is merely a rock ("mind the Sith") whereas Ziost is defined as: "central world of the Sith Lords... a neutral planet where the descendents of powerful, exiled Jedi can conduct the business of an empire." If Ziost is the (new) home of the exiled Jedi and their descendants, It can be said that Ziost then is the "homeworld' of the Dark Jedi half -- the exiles -- who merged with the Sith species to become what is generally known as "the Sith" of this game and later. In this regard, if Ziost. not Korriban, became the Dark Jedi's new homeworld after being exiled by the Jedi, it does hold a claim to the title "homeworld of the Sith." In this regard, there would be two homeworlds, one for the Sith species and one for the non-Sith exiled Jedi; the two combined became "the Sith."
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Jandi's Avatar


Jandi
02.01.2014 , 02:12 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Genghistwelve View Post
It is posts like this that bring a smile to the internet gods. Such information is so very easy to source.

Dromund Kaas is stated by the novel's omnipotent narrator actually as being more than a mere homeworld in The Old Republic: Revan novel: "The decisive actions of the Emperor had saved them. He had led the remaining Sith into the unexplored regions of the galaxy, a decades-long flight that ended only when they rediscovered and reclaimed Dromund Kaas, their long-lost ancestral home." (Pgs. 127-128). Interesting in that this passage comes not as a quote by either Scourge or Nyriss in their conversation, but as background to inform us -- the reader. There's no reason to suggest this third-person omnipotent narrator is lying to us (for whatever reason).
Ok, this is what Drew has to say about it himself.

Thaknks for the e-mail; glad you enjoyed Revan.

I think it's fine to see the Emperor as co-opting Dromund Kaas to fit hsi needs and rechristening it as the "true" homeworld just so his followers would buy into what he was selling.

Hope this helps.

Drew


So uhh, yeah, try again?

Quote:
Ziost, of course also has a storied past. In Dark Horse Comics' original "Tales of the Jedi" series, particularly the Sith origin" series "Golden Age of the Sith," Korriban is merely a rock ("mind the Sith") whereas Ziost is defined as: "central world of the Sith Lords... a neutral planet where the descendents of powerful, exiled Jedi can conduct the business of an empire." If Ziost is the (new) home of the exiled Jedi and their descendants, It can be said that Ziost then is the "homeworld' of the Dark Jedi half -- the exiles -- who merged with the Sith species to become what is generally known as "the Sith" of this game and later. In this regard, if Ziost. not Korriban, became the Dark Jedi's new homeworld after being exiled by the Jedi, it does hold a claim to the title "homeworld of the Sith." In this regard, there would be two homeworlds, one for the Sith species and one for the non-Sith exiled Jedi; the two combined became "the Sith."
This is a quote from Wookieepedia.

You missed one important point. The Sith relocated to Ziost well before the arrival of the Dark Jedi. Korriban's ecosystem was devastated during a battle with the Rakata millennia earlier. As a result, the power base of the Sith was moved to Ziost, while Korriban remained a holy site. Most of this comes from The Essential Atlas and the Evil Never Dies article,

We are *not* talking about the Sith species, we are talking about the society and traditions that spawned from the dark Jedi founding the Sith.

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
02.01.2014 , 04:28 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Genghistwelve View Post
It is posts like this that bring a smile to the internet gods. Such information is so very easy to source.

Dromund Kaas is stated by the novel's omnipotent narrator actually as being more than a mere homeworld in The Old Republic: Revan novel: "The decisive actions of the Emperor had saved them. He had led the remaining Sith into the unexplored regions of the galaxy, a decades-long flight that ended only when they rediscovered and reclaimed Dromund Kaas, their long-lost ancestral home." (Pgs. 127-128). Interesting in that this passage comes not as a quote by either Scourge or Nyriss in their conversation, but as background to inform us -- the reader. There's no reason to suggest this third-person omnipotent narrator is lying to us (for whatever reason).
Drew K. uses what's called the Third-Person Limited Narration, as opposed to Third-Person Omniscient.

Even when the narrative isn't put in quotes (or italics for internal thoughts), the point of view is still limited to a specific focus character; in Revan the focus character shifts chapter-to-chapter between Scourge, Revan, and the Exile (and I think there's at least one Bastila chapter, can't remember if there's a Canderous one too).

When we're in the Scourge chapters, the narrator is relating the story as Scourge is experiencing it - including background knowledge as Scourge understands it - so DK is described only in terms of Scourge's (potentially flawed) understanding, even though it's still written in the Third Person "voice". It's the same as how the Narrator doesn't refer to Veela as Canderous's (ex?)wife until after Revan finds out about that relationship, if Revan doesn't know something, then the Narrator doesn't know it (in a Revan chapter at least).

It's a style that's been used by authors from James Joyce to JK Rowling, although different authors may vary in how "strictly" they limit the viewpoint. I'm pretty sure in your example, Drew was specifically giving the "history" of the planet as Scourge believed it to be true.
Given the choice whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to challenge the fates for another throw, a better throw, against one's destiny, what was a king to do?
But does one ever truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
~Kain

Bellatoro's Avatar


Bellatoro
02.01.2014 , 10:35 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
If its not Korriban then its an exact replica.
That picture sure looks like the Korriban we know, BUT changing a planet that played such a big part in the history of SW just because they can?

That would be just stupid, like saying zabrak and rattataki are suddenly dathomiran.

Wait a minute . . .
I am the keeper of a thousand arcane secrets and each one would drive you mad! MAD!
=> Vaarsuvius, ambiguously gendered elf

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.01.2014 , 10:43 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Bellatoro View Post
That picture sure looks like the Korriban we know, BUT changing a planet that played such a big part in the history of SW just because they can?

That would be just stupid, like saying zabrak and rattataki are suddenly dathomiran.

Wait a minute . . .
Well I was never to miffed about that, because it actually added something considerable to the series, as have other retcons like the New Mandalorians. But I fail to see what can be gained from creating an entirely new Sith World that looks exactly the same as the last, far better to build upon and tap into existing lore.

Bellatoro's Avatar


Bellatoro
02.01.2014 , 12:48 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Well I was never to miffed about that, because it actually added something considerable to the series, as have other retcons like the New Mandalorians. But I fail to see what can be gained from creating an entirely new Sith World that looks exactly the same as the last, far better to build upon and tap into existing lore.
Aside the horrible things they did to Darth Maul (just my opinion), the clone wars is much too reckless with stuff like retcons. Nothing screams "I donīt care what was said yesterday" like a retcon and this is particularly dangerous for a several decades old franchise. Personally I donīt care much about TCW, but it establishs lore that will possibly hunt us.

I am pretty pessimistic about this, but I hope they know what they are doing.
I am the keeper of a thousand arcane secrets and each one would drive you mad! MAD!
=> Vaarsuvius, ambiguously gendered elf

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
02.01.2014 , 12:50 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Bellatoro View Post
Aside the horrible things they did to Darth Maul (just my opinion), the clone wars is much too reckless with stuff like retcons. Nothing screams "I donīt care what was said yesterday" like a retcon and this is particularly dangerous for a several decades old franchise. Personally I donīt care much about TCW, but it establishs lore that will possibly hunt us.

I am pretty pessimistic about this, but I hope they know what they are doing.
Transforming Maul is a strong and memorable character doesn't seem horrible to me...

Anyway I feel when the Clone Wars makes retcons, they make improvements, and always makes an effort to make it as succinct as possible. But in this case I am deeply confused as to where they are going with this...

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
02.01.2014 , 01:28 PM | #50
Is it possible that, after the Ruusan Reclamation (I believe it was called that) the Jedi Order attempted to hide Korriban, going so far as to remove all referances of it from their archives and renaming it over the next thousand years?Would they be so worried about the rise of another Sith Empire that they would go that far to wipe the history books of such a planet's existence?

Maybe this arc will lead to the "rediscovery" of Korriban. We'll just have to wait and see I guess. This may be too much to hope for, but it could be possible, couldn't it?