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Sith Warrior a Darth or Lord?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Sith Warrior a Darth or Lord?

Sadishist's Avatar


Sadishist
01.20.2014 , 08:25 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
Sounds plausible. I don't think there is much actual difference between 'lord' and 'darth'. This is fiction, after all.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
01.22.2014 , 03:05 AM | #12
From above wookiepedia links:

Quote:
Sith Lord was a title that was conferred on members of various Sith Orders who had both considerable knowledge of and strength in the dark side.
Quote:
Darth was a title given to certain Sith Lords which preceded either their chosen Sith name, or, in some cases, their birth name.
So, whats the difference again?

I really like all things sith, but I find it funny that some people are trying to over-analyze something that was created originally just to sound cool
"What is a Sith? Over time, the beliefs have changed, but one constant has remained. The imposition of one's will on the force, on the environment surrounding one, on the galaxy itself." - Darth Wyyrlok III

LordGarmaZabi's Avatar


LordGarmaZabi
01.22.2014 , 04:14 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
From above wookiepedia links:





So, whats the difference again?

I really like all things sith, but I find it funny that some people are trying to over-analyze something that was created originally just to sound cool
It's made pretty clear in game that Darth is higher then Lord in this incarnation of the Sith. I recall Ravage saying on the subject of the Nox being made a Dark Council member, something to the effect of "You can't make a mere Lord a Council member."

However, being the Emperor's Wrath, he's not a Lord, atleast, not in the traditional sense. His place in the Sith power structure in unique.
Sieg Zeon !

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
01.22.2014 , 04:20 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by LordGarmaZabi View Post
It's made pretty clear in game that Darth is higher then Lord in this incarnation of the Sith. I recall Ravage saying on the subject of the Nox being made a Dark Council member, something to the effect of "You can't make a mere Lord a Council member."
I know it is supposed to be higher. But there really aren't proper definitions what do you need to be in order to be a darth. It seems completely arbitrary. Do you need another Darth or a council of darths to name you Darth? No, I don't think so. I'm sure there has been some self-appointed ones. So whats the defining factor? I don't see any.

Quote:
However, being the Emperor's Wrath, he's not a Lord, atleast, not in the traditional sense. His place in the Sith power structure in unique.
This I agree with. And I also agree with Biowares decision to give warrior the "Darth" title. It would have been stupid to give half the Sith population in the game a title there is supposed to be only one of in the entire Empire.
"What is a Sith? Over time, the beliefs have changed, but one constant has remained. The imposition of one's will on the force, on the environment surrounding one, on the galaxy itself." - Darth Wyyrlok III

LordGarmaZabi's Avatar


LordGarmaZabi
01.22.2014 , 05:52 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
I know it is supposed to be higher. But there really aren't proper definitions what do you need to be in order to be a darth. It seems completely arbitrary. Do you need another Darth or a council of darths to name you Darth? No, I don't think so. I'm sure there has been some self-appointed ones. So whats the defining factor? I don't see any.


This I agree with. And I also agree with Biowares decision to give warrior the "Darth" title. It would have been stupid to give half the Sith population in the game a title there is supposed to be only one of in the entire Empire.
Well, Bounty Hunters get "Champion of the Great Hunt" or something like that, and, technically, everyone playing are the same eight people. That said, I imagine the Darth title for Warriors is atleast better for the RP community.
Sieg Zeon !

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
01.22.2014 , 06:10 PM | #16
I'm pretty sure the idea that a Darth and a Lord are different things did not exist before SWTOR. So in the end it feels like a fairly arbitrary change to make to the Sith Warrior story to me.

BenKatarn's Avatar


BenKatarn
01.22.2014 , 07:27 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
I'm pretty sure the idea that a Darth and a Lord are different things did not exist before SWTOR.
It did. Case and point, the Darth Bane trilogy of novels. Back then, the title of Darth was given to the leader of the Sith Order, as "Darth" literally meant "Dark Lord of the Sith" in the native Sith language. By the time of Bane, a thousand years before the movies, all members of the Brotherhood of Darkness were Lords and not Darths, because Kaan wanted to have a group of equals in order to prevent strife and infighting amongst his Sith brethren. That is why Bane took on the title of Darth, since he accused Kaan and his followers of cowardice for none of them attempting to seize the mantle of leadership and thus leading to weakness and dilution of Sith strength.

Since the Sith Empire at this point is so large, we have a lot of Darths running around and the concept as portrayed by the Darth Bane trilogy doesn't really fly that well anymore. "Darth" is yet another distinction from a "regular" Sith Lord, just like a Jedi Master is different from a Jedi Knight. What can be confusing is the way of both Sith and Jedi are being addressed by other people, since regular Knights and sometimes even Padawans are addressed as "Master Jedi" by non-force-using people, just as even Sith Apprentices are addressed with "My Lord".
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MaximusRex's Avatar


MaximusRex
01.22.2014 , 08:41 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Terro_Fett View Post
The Emperor's Wrath is technically a Lord. Post act 3 dialogue has most NPCs referring to you as Lord Wrath, etc. and never as Darth, ever.
The Emperor's Wrath is a Darth, how he is addressed has no bearing on that. Darths are not addressed as Darths, ever. The only time Darth [Name] is ever used is when mentioning them to someone else.

The Emperor's Wrath also outranks the Dark Council, who are all Darths. The inquisitor is promoted to Darth because a Lord cannot be seen to serve on the Dark Council. This makes it pretty ludicrous that the Dark Council would be subservient to a Lord. This is why the Wrath title is more commonly used, because its distinguished from other Darths. Just like the Emperor is a Darth, but goes by the Emperor title, and no one calls him Darth Emperor.

When being addressed in the movies Darth Vader is only ever called Lord Vader or Vader except when Obi Wan calls him Darth. Just like many real life titles, there is a way you address the person that has nothing to do with their title. Knights are addressed as Sir, Popes are addressed as your holiness or his holiness, the Queen is addressed as her majesty or your majesty.

Sadishist's Avatar


Sadishist
01.22.2014 , 10:49 PM | #19
But what of the first Wrath, Lord Scourge? Of course, the first and second Wraths are different.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
01.22.2014 , 11:39 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by BenKatarn View Post
It did. Case and point, the Darth Bane trilogy of novels. Back then, the title of Darth was given to the leader of the Sith Order, as "Darth" literally meant "Dark Lord of the Sith" in the native Sith language. By the time of Bane, a thousand years before the movies, all members of the Brotherhood of Darkness were Lords and not Darths, because Kaan wanted to have a group of equals in order to prevent strife and infighting amongst his Sith brethren. That is why Bane took on the title of Darth, since he accused Kaan and his followers of cowardice for none of them attempting to seize the mantle of leadership and thus leading to weakness and dilution of Sith strength.

Since the Sith Empire at this point is so large, we have a lot of Darths running around and the concept as portrayed by the Darth Bane trilogy doesn't really fly that well anymore. "Darth" is yet another distinction from a "regular" Sith Lord, just like a Jedi Master is different from a Jedi Knight. What can be confusing is the way of both Sith and Jedi are being addressed by other people, since regular Knights and sometimes even Padawans are addressed as "Master Jedi" by non-force-using people, just as even Sith Apprentices are addressed with "My Lord".
The way the titles are supposed to be distinct ranks is not something that makes any sense in any era before or after this one. A "Darth" was always still a Sith Lord.

Kaan was ostensibly the leader of the Brotherhood of Darkness and he wasn't a Darth. Since that thousands of years later, Bane's take on the title shouldn't really be relevant. The Dark Lords of the Sith before and during the Great Hyperspace War and the Great Sith War were not Darths.

The idea behind the word Darth has probably been the most often retconed idea in Star Wars.