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Deception Vs Madness


SithSlashz's Avatar


SithSlashz
12.22.2011 , 06:23 PM | #1
I know its early on in the game, but does anyone know which spec/build is more powerful atm, i have only tryed Deception atm and wanting to see peoples views on Madness, is it good? is it a match to deception? better? (or even which one is more enjoyable)
thx

Sereena's Avatar


Sereena
12.22.2011 , 10:15 PM | #2
I would suggest respecing and trying out all 3 skill tree's to find out which one works for you.

Invitcted's Avatar


Invitcted
12.22.2011 , 10:44 PM | #3
I'd also suggest saying what purpose you intend to use the tree.
▔ịị◚◚◚◚◚ịịδ▔ịị7▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒)

Drunk_wookie's Avatar


Drunk_wookie
12.23.2011 , 12:42 AM | #4
Once you get Force in Balance, Circle of Death (w/e its name in madness) madness becomes amazing.

Its less directionally challenged than deception, and can roflstomp gold elites and silvers much easier.

That said, once you get to voltaic slash as deception most of its weaknesses go away, and its just a playstyle choice, ramp up DOT damage with AOE, or proc based single target burst.

Rulak's Avatar


Rulak
12.23.2011 , 01:03 AM | #5
Madness?!

THIS IS STARWAAAAARS!
------{{ RP-PVP }}--------
~Zarischa. Mandalorian jedi-hunter lvl 50
~Zin'quel. Fleetfooted sentinel lvl 12
~Ne'rique. Jedi shadow with a big mouth. lvl 13

Smzel's Avatar


Smzel
12.23.2011 , 05:10 AM | #6
I haven't tried Deception yet, but i can give some thoughts on Madness up to lvl 30.

Madness is a really weird DPS build, its pretty much a short ranged caster spec, your mostly working at the 10m range. Pve your doing very nice dmg, but PvP you just dont have the survivability or burst for 1v1's, however you can really rack up the dmg in groups when people arent paying attention to you.
"Its a Trap!"

Anelyn's Avatar


Anelyn
12.23.2011 , 05:43 AM | #7
While VS makes some improvements to your dps, it doesn't change the way you play, as far as I am aware it simply replaces trash skill, providing similar damage and procs with the added flavor of 30% extra dmg on shock at 2 stacks.

You don't have to maul to do good dmg (let's say solo quests etc), as in your dmg is not gimped without mauling. Maul is only worth to use with FW proc up, otherwise as many other peeps sugested, is not worth the dmg / force cost.

To give you a short comparission, I have a 30 JC balance sage, blue / purple / orange geared. Highest crits are ~500-600 top, with TK tick crits ~260-300. I already push 1k+ mauls with FW and trinket, shock and discharge crit into 700, while being 6 levels lower. So I'd presume a Madness sin would get similar numbers on dots. Death field is nice, but has a large CD, it can crit (force in balance for sage) up to 700+. What annoyed me was even as sage, my tumult was critting 1.2k lol

Compared to my Concealment Operative the damage of Sin deception feels higher sustained, and you can still burst well with 2xFW procs (chained) discharge and induction, and unlike Agent, you don't gimp your regen if you push in the lower zone of resource bar.

RamonB's Avatar


RamonB
12.23.2011 , 08:33 AM | #8
Let me preface this by stating that I'm only lvl 18 and haven't really "crunched" any number...just eye balling the talent trees if you will.
After reading the sticky, it seems that the author believes that Deception is the most "martial" and best of the assassin's builds. After just eye balling the talents, I have a few questions.

How much difference is there between surging discharge and lightening discharge? Is surging discharge light years better? Is its discharge effect that much better?

What is the difference in attack dmg (excluding the shock buff) between Voltaic and Madness specced Thrash? Also, it appears that the tooltips on TOR HAS to be wrong...it states that at Max lvl thrash deals more than double the damage of Maul.

I'm really enticed by the madness spec and have been thanking about switching over at 30. I guess I'm just wondering about the cost and gain of it. What am I losing by switching to madness and what am I gaining. I would lose Induction, surging charge, darkswell, and deceptive power, but I would gain parasitism, death field, and claws of decay. Advantage Madness I think...I lose a bit of dmg from induction but gain quite a bit from Death field and claws of decay. I lose the utility of darkswell, and surging charge...but until I know how much a difference surging charge is from Lightening charge I'm just gonna call it a wash. Moving up, I would lose static charges and saber conduit...both are kinda meh IMHO, but losing low slash would hurt. I would gain Deathmark, Raze, and Unearthed Knowledge. Death mark looks amazing, Raze seems good, but how reliable is it? Unearthed Knowledge needs some explaining...what exactly is "bonus" dmg??? Advantage...I'm not sure, but deathmark does seem really good. Moving up....losing crackling blasts hurts...hurts bad, but I gain devour and creeping death, so it equals out in my mind. Advantage...equal. Last but not least is Voltaic vs Creeping Terror. The only way for me to know for sure is to compare Voltaic vs Madness Thrash...how big a difference is there? According to TOR's tooltip Thrash is our hardest hitting melee ability (that cant be right...hits harder than maul at max lvl???). It would make sense that if Thrash>Voltaic that adding Creeping Terror just sweetens the pot.

I guess after pondering the different abilities it all boils down to this. How much difference is there between Voltaic and Thrash, how much weaker is Madness Maul, and whats the difference dmg wise between Surging and Lightening charge proc and discharge? If they are only slightly weaker in a Madness build, the added spells of Madness seems worth it. I would just play as if I was a Deception Assassin with beefier spells.

Any and all help is appreciated. I know the post is rambling..i guess its just one of those stream of consciousness types posts.

Jabtangs's Avatar


Jabtangs
12.23.2011 , 03:11 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by RamonB View Post
Let me preface this by stating that I'm only lvl 18 and haven't really "crunched" any number...just eye balling the talent trees if you will.
After reading the sticky, it seems that the author believes that Deception is the most "martial" and best of the assassin's builds. After just eye balling the talents, I have a few questions.....
I'm a noob myself, but I'll just comment on some things that I understand so far.

The difference between surging and lightning charges is that the prior is instant burst and the latter is DOT. Nobody would really know which one is better over the other, but if you spec into Madness, Parasitism will be triggered by the lightning discharge and will heal you.

And many people who do spec into Madness say Raze is the reason why they spec into that tree. Free Crushing Darkness with no cast is simply amazing IMO. Plus, this also gives DOT so will heal you if it crits.

I don't know if the heal is anything that will save my *** when I'm low in hp, but it's better than nothing i guess?

SBFcthulhu's Avatar


SBFcthulhu
12.23.2011 , 06:36 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Jabtangs View Post
I don't know if the heal is anything that will save my *** when I'm low in hp, but it's better than nothing i guess?
The "heals" that these abilities give is very minuscule. It never got me out of a crunch that I could tell, so I switched to deception. Having played both trees now (in the lvl 30 range) I can tell you that, as far as damage, they seem about the same. The differences are that deception has a MUCH easier rotation compared to madness imo, but, when dealing with multiple mobs, I greatly miss death field and the improved WW. I think that it is going to come down to someone making some spreadsheets and crunching numbers to find the true king of these two builds. I'd also like to mention that this is all based on pve combat.

tl;dr: As of now, I'd say that the choice comes down to personal preference and what is important to you (i.e. easy damage rotation on single target, or more aoe dmg)