For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

Before we begin, let’s set out the ground rules of the Semi-Finals:

• The arena: the known galaxy.
  
• Only those incorporated in the listed in the faction compilations below can take part in the Kaggath.
  
• No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base or influence.
  
• No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  
• No surrender, fight to the death!
  
• Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  
• Factions are autonomous – players have no control over their factions decisions, this is determined by the nature of their leadership.
  

So, the combatants: StarSquirrel is returning with her band of Mandalorian warriors and Warren-Stride with her assembly of droid enforcers. Behold the factions!

The Sol’yc Empire

Leadership

Head of State: Tenel Ka Djo

Second-in-Command: Nek Bwau’tu

Allies: Jaina Solo and Boba Fett

Supplier: MandalMotors

Military

Minor Ground Force: Mando Cabure (Mandalorian Protectors) & HK-50 Army

Major Naval Force: Mandalorian Navy

Planets

Capital: Esseles

Supply Base: Mandalore

Stronghold/Military Base: Myrkr

Stronghold/Military Base: Telos IV

Shipyards: Bilbringi

vs

The Droid Supremacy

Leadership

Head of State: G0-T0

Second-in-Command: Guri

Allies: PROXY & HK-01

Supplier: The Exchange

Military

Minor Ground Force: Trade Federation Army & Terror Units

Naval Force: Black Sun Navy

Planets

Capital: Bothawui

Supply Base: Nar Shaddaa

Stronghold/Military Base: Kamino

Stronghold/Military Base: Geonosis

Shipyards: Mon Calamari

The Soly’c Empire has a special taskforce of elite warriors and tacticians at its disposal yet the Droid Supremacy commands a vast droid army – but who is greater, who will win? The battle lines have been drawn...

(Reposting because this is a good rundown reminder of what my forces can do)

The Droid Supremacy will cut you up because:

Its head of state is practically impossible to find. Its offensive force includes stealthed troops and force-using droids. Its defensive force is well coordinated and adaptive. Its fleet is powerful in both firepower and number. Between Kamino, Geonosis, and Mon Calamari, production of forces is incredible. The economy cannot fail under the guidance of two supercomputers. Its supplier is able to provide anything it needs, from weapons to manual labor to metals and underworld goods. It has two elite assassins who are able to infiltrate virtually anywhere. None of the leaders would even consider defecting. And HK-01 will ensure that every single droid in your empire defects to the Droid Supremacy.

I will make faction-specific arguments ASAP. This is just a summary of what my forces can do. Opponents, read up!

Well classes start this week so I'll be hit-or-miss in replying to specific arguments at least till Thursdayish. I'll lay out a framework of why my team will win here though, since Warren has done so already.

The Sol'yc Imperium

Is a strike-force oriented faction designed not to overpower, but to target and eliminate while weathering all comers on a series of planets that are exceedingly difficult to capture. A force of the greatest Mandalorian warriors in galactic history (on the individual level) lead by their long-time commander and some of the greatest tactical and political minds of the New Republic/Galactic Alliance eras. Aiding them is a lethal complement of HK-50 assassin droids manufactured out of their secret Telos IV facility. The world-annihilating fleets of the Mandalorian Navy mass produced out of the self-sustaining Bilbringi Shipyards are lead by none other than the naval bane of the Vong and Empire, Nek Bwau'tu. Leading the forces in their strikes, expert covert assault specialists Boba Fett and Jaina Solo can get anywhere, and kill anything while still getting out as they've done more times than I can count.

Some important points

• Boba knows Geonosis and Kamino rather well, so he can at the very least point to where Nek needs to nuke then destroy all production on those planets.
  
• I believe we'll have to sort out the HK-01 and HK-50s' effects on the other droids in the fight here.
  
• What does G0-T0 and the HK-50's know about each other?
  
• The Mandalorian Navy was designed to combat the Republic navy back in the time they used several smaller ships much like what the Black Sun navy will possess. I think I have a serious edge in Naval power here. (ignoring production)
  
• Tenel Ka is a fully trained Jedi with HK-50 protection... I don't think Guri will be too much of a factor
  
• I have a tactical edge imo. Jaina, Boba, and Nek are all tacticians (and Tenel Ka to a lesser extent) whereas I see G0-T0 and HK-01 being the only real tactical minds on Warren's faction.
  
• Comparing production, unless I can obliterate Kamino and Geonosis... I'll get overrun... still If I win Mon Cal I might make that a non issue with nukes to clear out whatever is masses on planets.
  
• Finding G0-T0 and can Guri kill Tenel Ka will be the biggest questions imo.
  

Dang it Beni, we're so perfectly matched here as I have guys who know stuff about the DS and the DS knows stuff about the SI. I'll have a lot of questions regarding who knows what and what droids are able to do to each other...

A couple things I'm noticing at first look:

1.) Droids

I know, I know, this argument is going to get (or already is) old and annoying. I agree. But still, I DID choose HK-01 as my ally for this purpose, so bear with me.

The Sol’yc Empire, unfortunately for it, contains... a lot of droids.

Mando Cabure uses BL-series Battle Legionnaire droids

Mandalorian Navy has Basilisk war droids

HK-50s

The HK-50s are easy prey, G0-T0 did reprogram them to do his bidding WITHOUT HK-01, after all. I'm not actually sure if HK-01 can hack Basilisk droids because they seem extremely sophisticated, even to the point of semi-artificial intelligence. But the BL's are pretty standard. How HK-01 is able to connect to and convert these droids is an issue, but one he can easily overcome.

2.) Boba Fett and PROXY

PROXY already knows the exact mannerisms, fighting techniques, and appearance of Boba Fett. And because Boba has no Force powers, PROXY will be able to bascially become another Boba, able to use his tactics and skills. Impersonating the bounty hunter would be simple, and a great way to (at least temporarily) infiltrate the Sol'yc Empire.

I understand that Boba Fett's existence is secret because he's an ally, but I think someone so deeply rooted in the underworld, like Guri and G0-T0 are, would know if the galaxy's greatest bounty hunter was working for another faction. If not, they'll find out eventually.

Also, although I would usually try to say that Boba could be hired by the Droid Supremacy, his connection to the Mandalorians and friendship with Jaina will likely keep him firmly in place as a Sol'yc Empire ally. Good leadership choices, Starsquirrel.

3.) Telos IV

The fact that Telos IV exists in this Kaggath gives the Droid Supremacy a little foothold in SE territory. It's unlikely that the cell of Exchange informants will be discovered, especially considering that they are hidden under the name of another business. If allowed to exist, and I have no idea why or how the SE would discover them, these Exchange hitmen can easily run intel or even subtle sabotage, at least on Telos. If Telos is to be used as a SE military base, that will give the DS a good estimate and/or warning of the enemy's numbers or even battle plans, if they are communicating within the system.

More to come as I think of it.

I didn't even realize you called the last one...

A couple things I'm noticing at first look:

 

 

1.) Droids

 

I know, I know, this argument is going to (or already is) old and annoying. I agree. But still, I DID choose HK-01 as my ally for this purpose, so bear with me.

 

The Sol’yc Empire, unfortunately for it, contains... a lot of droids.

 

Mando Cabure uses BL-series Battle Legionnaire droids

Mandalorian Navy has Basilisk war droids

HK-50s

 

The HK-50s are easy prey, G0-T0 did reprogram them to do his bidding WITHOUT HK-01, after all. I'm not actually sure if HK-01 can hack Basilisk droids because they seem extremely sophisticated, even to the point of semi-artificial intelligence. But the BL's are pretty standard. How HK-01 is able to connect to and convert these droids is an issue, but one he can easily overcome.

 

2.) Boba Fett and PROXY

 

PROXY already knows the exact mannerisms, fighting techniques, and appearance of Boba Fett. And because Boba has no Force powers, PROXY will be able to bascially become another Boba, able to use his tactics and skills. Impersonating the bounty hunter would be simple, and a great way to (at least temporarily) infiltrate the Sol'yc Empire.

 

I understand that Boba Fett's existence is secret because he's an ally, but I think someone so deeply rooted in the underworld, like Guri and G0-T0 are, would know if the galaxy's greatest bounty hunter was working for another faction. If not, they'll find out eventually.

 

Also, although I would usually try to say that Boba could be hired by the Droid Supremacy, his connection to the Mandalorians and friendship with Jaina will likely keep him firmly in place as a Sol'yc Empire ally. Good leadership choices, Starsquirrel.

 

3.) Telos IV

 

The fact that Telos IV exists in this Kaggath gives the Droid Supremacy a little foothold in SE territory. It's unlikely that the cell of Exchange informants will be discovered, especially considering that they are hidden under the name of another business. If allowed to exist, and I have no idea why or how the SE would discover them, these Exchange hitmen can easily run intel or even subtle sabotage, at least on Telos. If Telos is to be used as a SE military base, that will give the DS a good estimate and/or warning of the enemy's numbers or even battle plans, if they are communicating within the system.

 

More to come as I think of it.

I was having the same issues with the droids as well. I don't think HK-01 will be too much of a problem and the Legionare droids I'm going to do more research on before I concede that one, but like you said about G0-T0 and HK-50's... still HK-50's are independent and can hack others themselves so you're droid-based faction might have its own problems with this as well.

I don't think PROXY just absorbs tactical ability, but he can get limited knowledge by copying. Thing is, Boba isn't exactly known for being predictable so PROXY's knowledge of him up to now won't help much imo. Thanks on the compliment though, same to you, yours in already causing my problems

As far as Beni told be through the last matches, Telos is secret... so unless G0-T0 knows then I don't have an issue.

Also, SE would probably go from Myrkr and strike immediately rather than gather at Telos. I don't think SE wants to set foot on the ground unless it can even the odds against Terror and Trade Fed forces, so instead of picking up HK-50's they'd just fly to Mon Cal or Geonosis or Kamino and nuke everything.

(Btw, between Jaina, Nek, and Boba they know your worlds and where to strike extremely well.)

Alright Warren I'm gonna be off for a few hours so have fun, if someone wants to step up for me in the mean time that'd be super awesome of you

Boba knows Geonosis and Kamino rather well, so he can at the very least point to where Nek needs to nuke then destroy all production on those planets.

True. Although I'm still if-y on Base Delta Zero tactics being used by Alliance/Republic people. And Nek has never resorted to them before. On top of that, capturing the droid factories of Geonosis would allow the SE to build tons more HK-50s. So I would assume they would rather take the planet than destroy it. Which would be a hard ground battle to win.

I believe we'll have to sort out the HK-01 and HK-50s' effects on the other droids in the fight here.

What does G0-T0 and the HK-50's know about each other?

I'm assuming G0-T0 knows a lot about the HK-50s. He did reprogram them. The HK-50s may know (depending on if they're fresh off the production line or not) that G0-T0 has a stealthed yacht over Nar Shaddaa, but remember that that yacht can be moved.

The Mandalorian Navy was designed to combat the Republic navy back in the time they used several smaller ships much like what the Black Sun navy will possess. I think I have a serious edge in Naval power here. (ignoring production)

I agree that the DS is in trouble space-wise. The winning move for the DS may be to abandon warfare and just go straight for a Cutting Off the Head strategy.

Tenel Ka is a fully trained Jedi with HK-50 protection... I don't think Guri will be too much of a factor

Tenel Ka Djo only has one arm, and I never (correct me if I'm wrong) saw her as a particularly powerful Jedi. But 1v1 probably isn't a scenario we should debate, because assassination attempts rarely allow for a full-out brawl.

I have a tactical edge imo. Jaina, Boba, and Nek are all tacticians (and Tenel Ka to a lesser extent) whereas I see G0-T0 and HK-01 being the only real tactical minds on Warren's faction.

I think Guri -might- qualify as a sorta-tactician, but even so you're correct, the DS is outmatched tactics-wise.

Finding G0-T0 and can Guri kill Tenel Ka will be the biggest questions imo.

Agreed, though I think saying that Guri is the only thing in DS capable of killing Tenel Ka is incorrect. PROXY and the Terror Troopers are definite threats as well.

I'm assuming G0-T0 knows a lot about the HK-50s. He did reprogram them. The HK-50s may know (depending on if they're fresh off the production line or not) that G0-T0 has a stealthed yacht over Nar Shaddaa, but remember that that yacht can be moved.

I'm still deciding which one could win this.

Same lol. I am not sure the droid hacking will work on either the HK-50's or the Basilisk Wardroids because of the nature of those droids already largly being independent. Not an expert obviously just thoughts. But beyond that they are a tough set up as is.

True. Although I'm still if-y on Base Delta Zero tactics being used by Alliance/Republic people. And Nek has never resorted to them before. On top of that, capturing the droid factories of Geonosis would allow the SE to build tons more HK-50s. So I would assume they would rather take the planet than destroy it. Which would be a hard ground battle to win.

Well Tenel Ka is the leader of the Consortium so she's accustomed to making hard choices. Jaina is more "gray" and violent than most jedi. She also carries little pity for anyone who tries to kill her and her family especially is they aren't human (Sword of the Jedi title going to her head methinks). Boba, well he's not above doing anything to protect Mandalore and his people, probably the most likely to order a nuclear strike and I think he'd be able to justify it to Jaina or Tenel Ka. Both have been known to adopt "end justify the means" philosophy from time to time...

I'm assuming G0-T0 knows a lot about the HK-50s. He did reprogram them. The HK-50s may know (depending on if they're fresh off the production line or not) that G0-T0 has a stealthed yacht over Nar Shaddaa, but remember that that yacht can be moved.

Well Beni killed that one... Also, I think Tune is right, HK-50's would require individual rewiring or manipulation of the factory. It could be done, but not easily.

I agree that the DS is in trouble space-wise. The winning move for the DS may be to abandon warfare and just go straight for a Cutting Off the Head strategy.

Hmm, open warfare suits your ground forces best compared to mine though so keep that in mind. Mine are a little more specialized for squad-based and strike force type combat.

Tenel Ka Djo only has one arm, and I never (correct me if I'm wrong) saw her as a particularly powerful Jedi. But 1v1 probably isn't a scenario we should debate, because assassination attempts rarely allow for a full-out brawl.

She was part of the Myrkr mission, so she had to be one of the best in the second-gen academy students. That said, she's at least a lot better by virtue of the force than droids. Not to mention she rules a government in which everyone and their cousin is trying to kill her and subvert her. Though you're right, it isn't a huge issue when considering she'll probably face a strike team if it comes to that

I think Guri -might- qualify as a sorta-tactician, but even so you're correct, the DS is outmatched tactics-wise.

Agreed, though I think saying that Guri is the only thing in DS capable of killing Tenel Ka is incorrect. PROXY and the Terror Troopers are definite threats as well.

Agreed, I forgot about them... Still Tenel Ka has the force, experience in surviving assassination attempts, and Mandalorians + assassin droids to protect her. As I said, It'll be interesting to see who has the better chance of taking off the head.

Another note on the nuclear orbital weapons thing. Since Boba knows the planets so well, he could probably target specific points (repair shops, storage/garrisons, generators ect...) to eliminate and weaken ground forces on a planet to nothing before moving in, to take the factories. When Mandalore attacked Serroco they strategically targeted and hit individual cities, Boba could do this to eliminate the strongest points of resistance before even setting foot on the planet (be it Kamino, Geonosis, Mon Cal, Nar Shadda ect...)

Concerning open warfare:

"Battle droids are single-minded, Kaas. Give them an obvious target and they'll attack it without watching their rear quarters. Easy ambush."

What? You think I would post something that could be used against me during one of my battles?

I suppose it's come down to that point where I have to support the person I know I can beat, hasn't it?

Pretty much, it's what I did for you guys...

I suppose it's come down to that point where I have to support the person I know I can beat, hasn't it?

No this is the part where you decide who you think will win.

What if the person I think can win is the person I know I can defeat?

What if the person I think can win is the person I know I can defeat?

I don't know about you but I go into every match with the belief that I can potentially win. So regardless of who wins previous matches I always argue the one I think can win because I think I can potentially beat everyone.

I don't know about you but I go into every match with the belief that I can potentially win. So regardless of who wins previous matches I always argue the one I think can win because I think I can potentially beat everyone.

While I do feel the same, I feel it is best to ensure your victory. Is that not how Sidious took over the galaxy?

2.) Boba Fett and PROXY

 

PROXY already knows the exact mannerisms, fighting techniques, and appearance of Boba Fett. And because Boba has no Force powers, PROXY will be able to bascially become another Boba, able to use his tactics and skills. Impersonating the bounty hunter would be simple, and a great way to (at least temporarily) infiltrate the Sol'yc Empire.

Also Warren the Supremacy's fleet is not piloted by Terror Troopers, who as as far as we are aware are not capable of this - its piloted by the Trade Federation naval battle droids.

Right, got it. There are a couple misconceptions in that summary post that we're addressed in the last debate, so if I don't make the argument outside of that one post that's a sign that I've either abandoned or been corrected on that idea.

As far as Beni told be through the last matches, Telos is secret... so unless G0-T0 knows then I don't have an issue.