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When matches consist of 6+ Flashfires/Stings...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
When matches consist of 6+ Flashfires/Stings...

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
01.08.2014 , 10:07 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
It would be pot5 that would stack FoTms on the slightest whim wouldn't it.
I don't know what other servers are like.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
01.08.2014 , 10:16 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
I don't know what other servers are like.
Well my sever has a obsession with Quells on impside and gunships on pubside.

See the second post in this thread for why a ship's popularity is not related at all to it being OP.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

Lymain's Avatar


Lymain
01.08.2014 , 10:30 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
Buffing missiles will only make some of the scouts even better.

Yes, I truly believe evasion is a serious issue. PoT5 matches have turned into scout fests because they offer superior firepower (depending on loadout) in a high speed, high maneuver package.

Why would I take anything else?
As I wrote earlier, the problem is scouts getting cluster missiles. You might as well offer Flashfires/Stings access to every secondary weapon in the game (aside from maybe Ion railguns ) because the vast majority of them would still take cluster missiles.

You even said yourself that scouts offer "superior firepower (depending on loadout) in a high speed, high maneuver package," but evasion has nothing to do with any of those three things. I would argue that the 'superior firepower' is really only true of Flashfires/Stings using cluster missiles.

While NovaDrives/Blackbolts can stack evasion just as well as Flashfires/Stings, I don't think many people take issue with where they stand balance-wise. On the other hand, cluster missiles are probably the best weapon in the game against evasion stacking, so should we really be surprised that the one ship that can both stack evasion and counter ships stacked with evasion is extremely popular?
Xeric - Juggernaut - The Ebon Hawk

DarthVindictus's Avatar


DarthVindictus
01.08.2014 , 10:59 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
The reason scouts are a BIT OP is because of the evasion statistic in this game.

If every shot counted (that was supposed to hit) then scouts would have a true weakness. As it is right now, evasion basically makes up for any lack of armor and arguably is better than armor. I know I stopped flying my strikers because the combination of pure firepower and speed in a scout is simply unmatched.

I think GSF needs an evasion reduction across the board in all aspects.
With flashfires it's not one aspect or the other that makes them OP, it's the COMBINATION of reliable lock on missiles, an extremely effective burst that comes with using both their system cooldown and their copilot skill, the natural mobility and speed, and evasion.

It's like they literally got the best of all worlds but health/shield pool, that's essentially it.

It's just insane design, when every other ship has more clear weaknesses and limitations. Strikers can't get burst lasers, don't have overcharge, only have a little bit more blaster range than the scouts, are slower and less maneuverable, and have the worst sensors in the game.

T1 Scouts have pretty bad lock on missiles that are mostly just good for turrets, sabotage probes I think make the most sense for a scout secondary but nobody really uses them, because rocket pods give them more damage, but rocket pods are dumb fire weapons with a slow rate of fire so they're not all that dangerous unless you're almost point blank range on someone, they have utility cooldowns rather than offensive, and limited laser selection. They're fast, maneuverable, have great sensors, and utility, but they have low shields and hull health, and have low firepower that more or less makes them good harassers, but not as good of killers. What a scout should be. They can be first to the satellites and cap, they can find gunships and harass them, maybe kill some of them, point out all the enemies to their allies, and harry strikers leading them away from satellites into open space where they have the maneuverability advantage.

Gunships have good firepower from a distance, but have weaker hulls/shields (remember, a gunship's default shield does not have a -30% shield capacity penalty, a strike fighter's default shield does.. but if a gunship is using a -30% shield capacity shield like distortion field, they have less shields than a quick charge shield striker, and much less than a directional shield striker) than strike fighters (unless specced to use reinforcement armor, gives them 50 more hull health than strikers.), but higher than scouts, and the worst mobility, and no lock on missiles. They have burst lasers, but in a fight, even a straight joust with no maneuverability to be considered, they'll lose to a scout because the scout has a secondary weapon adding damage, so a gunship's best bet is to make a run for it..... having the lowest speed, and worst engine consumption.


Yes, I can bypass and one shot a flashfire, but the rest of that match that flashfire will be specifically hunting me, and I'll have 1-2 other flashfires on me most of the match too. I may end a match with under 2 deaths, but in a match with 4+ flashfires, I also have under 5 kills and under 10 assists as well, because I spend most of the match running and hitting barrel roll basically off cooldown with incessant missile lock on beeping.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
01.08.2014 , 11:09 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVindictus View Post
You know they're not a balanced ship.
Only 1 of the 6 Flashfire/Sting pilots are of any good, max. Otherwise, they fall just as easily to a half-upgraded Pike, or Starguard.

Also, after reading some posts in this thread, I think people greatly overestimate Evasion. The majority of kills/damage done (at least in my practice) with blaster cannons. As long as they're roughly in the center of your screen, you're *very* likely to hit them. Missiles help, but you won't get a lock on a decent humper/LoSer, even with Clusters. Hell, I manage to break 9/10 of locks (against Stings, no less) on a *Star Guard* when sat-humping - without access to Distortion lock breaks, and without "tight-space" engines (got Barrel Roll for rapid transitions).
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Sharee's Avatar


Sharee
01.08.2014 , 11:20 AM | #26
I find the complaints about cluster missiles silly, really.

I can fire one missile every 4.3 seconds(1.3s lockon+ 3s reload). The missile hits for 683+205=888 damage.

888 / 4.3 = 206.5 DPS.

The LOWEST DPS of all the primary weapons is Ion Cannon hitting a ship's hull, do you know how much DPS it does?

206 DPS.

In other words, a fully upgraded cluster missile does as much against it's best target as a totally unupgraded ion cannon against the worst target.

They are good at supplementing main gun damage, and making bad pilots nervous. That's it.

Lymain's Avatar


Lymain
01.08.2014 , 11:53 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Sharee View Post
I find the complaints about cluster missiles silly, really.

I can fire one missile every 4.3 seconds(1.3s lockon+ 3s reload). The missile hits for 683+205=888 damage.

888 / 4.3 = 206.5 DPS.

The LOWEST DPS of all the primary weapons is Ion Cannon hitting a ship's hull, do you know how much DPS it does?

206 DPS.

In other words, a fully upgraded cluster missile does as much against it's best target as a totally unupgraded ion cannon against the worst target.

They are good at supplementing main gun damage, and making bad pilots nervous. That's it.
The point is that clusters have 100% hit rate while blasters (and rocket pods) hit much less often, so they don't reach their advertised DPS.

But really, it's pointless to even talk about how it looks on paper when you can just try a different loadout yourself. If you find rocket pods or sab probe to be even close to as effective as cluster missiles, then I would guess you have an unusual playstyle/skillset.
Xeric - Juggernaut - The Ebon Hawk

Svarthrafn's Avatar


Svarthrafn
01.08.2014 , 12:13 PM | #28
DPS has absolutely nothing to do with being successful in shooting down other players. Burst damage is where it is at. Unless you are flying against a poor pilot (who you will shoot down no matter what you're packing), you are better off with a weapon that dumps more damage into the target per shot, to make up for shorter engagement windows.

This is why Burst Lasers are so popular right now.

Vandicus's Avatar


Vandicus
01.08.2014 , 12:17 PM | #29
I wouldn't mind playing against more scouts. Certainly preferable to gunships.
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DarthVindictus's Avatar


DarthVindictus
01.08.2014 , 12:18 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Sharee View Post
I find the complaints about cluster missiles silly, really.

I can fire one missile every 4.3 seconds(1.3s lockon+ 3s reload). The missile hits for 683+205=888 damage.

888 / 4.3 = 206.5 DPS.

The LOWEST DPS of all the primary weapons is Ion Cannon hitting a ship's hull, do you know how much DPS it does?

206 DPS.

In other words, a fully upgraded cluster missile does as much against it's best target as a totally unupgraded ion cannon against the worst target.

They are good at supplementing main gun damage, and making bad pilots nervous. That's it.
They supplement gun damage and in open space they are RELIABLE damage. Humping satellites or asteroids they are less reliable, but even around the mesas they are fairly reliable damage vs the longer lock on times/cooldowns of all the other missiles.

Concussion missiles pack a punch, however, with a 2.7s lockon and what is it, 7s cooldown? It takes them longer to get off missiles, they result in lower dps than upgraded cluster missiles. That's the thing with rocket pods too, you can fire them fairly fast, but they're only 400 damage and pilots will miss on about half of them because of the flight time and awful tracking penalty for them, unless dead center on a still target you're only going to hit 1/3 of them .

Upgraded clusters are the most reliable secondary weapon for strikes and flashfires/stings. Rocket pods are only really good for a surprise burst on a still target, and turrets.

Also as far as the evasion goes... I've had it, to where a flashfire was flying directly into me, while I was charging a shot, aimed dead at them center of HUD at 7000m, and missed. Evasion can have a big impact.