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Need help on final boss of HM Dread Fortress


Propz's Avatar


Propz
01.02.2014 , 12:09 PM | #1
My guild is having some issues with defeating Brontes on 8man HM...

We can get to the phase where the 6 fingers are in the center, and the 2 hands on the outside.
Our tanks angle the hands to slam the orbs.... but our middle group dies after the first finger is killed and it snowballs from there.

Our group makeup is this...

Tanks - 2 juggs
Healers - sorc/merc or sorc/sorc
Dps - 2 snipers / merc / sorc

I have watched numerous videos, and read numerous strats but something just isnt adding up.
We arrange 6 people to stand next to the fingers.. and we focus down the first one then move to 2 etc
Our snipers drop aoe on the 2nd/3rd fingers and focus down the first one with everyone else...
We have finger buddies, so once number one is dead that person moves to relieve their finger buddy...

It isnt working... are we waiting to long to move people? Whats the trick here...
Our group is made up of 72/78 geared people... so I dont think its a gear issue.

Any help would be appreciated. We are still searching for more tips, but figured I would post here and see if anyone could chime in with a possible tip that we are missing.

Thanks everyone!!!
Propz - 55 Jugg | Nastradamus - 55 PT | Kirban - 55 Sin
Mindgamez - 55 Sorc | Truzt - 55 Op | Gyza - 55 Merc
Danarus - 55 Mara | Balwin - 55 Sniper

Saenth's Avatar


Saenth
01.02.2014 , 12:13 PM | #2
For a less experienced group, I'd suggest your healer combo isn't 'ideal' (no operative). However, it's very doable and given that you're getting through the orbs in the fight, it seems like not too big of an issue. It'd be best to have a video of your group wiping, but short of that - and assuming that every orb is in fact being deleted by the tanks - I'm guessing that people are getting clipped by numerous purple circles. The healers should have enough heals to balance tank healing with healing the DPS/themselves on each side, but the fight starts to become very difficult if you have people taking 10-15k hits from purple circles. If this is at all the case, train your raid to stand just in melee range on the side of each finger, and when a purple circle emerges, step through the finger to retain melee range while dodging.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
01.02.2014 , 12:16 PM | #3
Make sure you assign each finger to a specific player and that the character stays in melee range (basically standing just to one side) of his/her finger until it is dead. If one moves too far away from his/her assigned finger that finger targets someone else, that someone dies and now one PC has three fingers, etc.

Yes there is the purple circles one has to step out of, but the effect is small enough that one can simply move to the other side of the finger, be out of the circle but be in melee range.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.02.2014 , 12:22 PM | #4
Lack of operative is not the problem. I've healed this with every combination of healers except merc/merc. Operatives don't really bring anything to that phase which is particularly irreplaceable, since the finger damage is too high for hots and people are too spread out for Recuperative Nanotech.

I'm almost certain your problem is not standing in melee range. Have the healers watch people's debuffs. If you have an extra debuff on your bar, then you almost certainly have two fingers and are about to melt. That needs to be avoided. Purple Circles are also very important. Avoid them and avoid the double finger situation and you should be fine. Don't bother with the "finger buddy" trick since it won't help you all that much and it just makes the purple circles harder.

Also, while lacking an operative isn't too noticeable on that fight, lacking a non-Jugg tank *is*. If either of your tanks have an assassin or a pt that they play well, you might want to consider making the switch. It isn't what is killing you on this phase by any means, but it will make things harder for you down the road and with other bosses (especially the dread masters).
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Bowenator's Avatar


Bowenator
01.02.2014 , 12:29 PM | #5
My guess is your heals just aren't keeping up. This could be due to a lack of skill on their part, or the rest of the raid taking too much unnecessary damage (e.g., standing in purple), or more likely some combination of both.

1) Stacking two sorc heals is particularly punishing during that phase because they will both be taking damage and also both be consuming to manage force. The sorc and merc should be fine. Stacking 2 of any healing AC is always sub optimal (but possible).

2) You should have plenty of time to kill the last droid during laser phase and get into position. On my sorc I literally bubble (static barrier) everyone in the raid as we transition to absorb that first bit of damage.

3) If you have two snipers, you should be able to get one ballistic shield on each side of the raid. Use them about 5-10 seconds into the phase, i.e., right about when the first finger dies.

4) Make sure your tanks are managing their cooldowns. I put 85% of my healing into the dps/heals in this phase and barely have to touch the tanks. They can also guard swap to a nearby healer/dps for a very slight damage reduction as aggro on the big hands should not be an issue.

5) Video record/stream your raid if you can so you can watch in detail what happens. I'm betting you'll catch a dps or heal tunnel visioning and eating a purple circle. Yell at that person and fix it.

Hope that helps.
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Saenth's Avatar


Saenth
01.02.2014 , 12:31 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Lack of operative is not the problem. I've healed this with every combination of healers except merc/merc. Operatives don't really bring anything to that phase which is particularly irreplaceable, since the finger damage is too high for hots and people are too spread out for Recuperative Nanotech.

I'm almost certain your problem is not standing in melee range. Have the healers watch people's debuffs. If you have an extra debuff on your bar, then you almost certainly have two fingers and are about to melt. That needs to be avoided. Purple Circles are also very important. Avoid them and avoid the double finger situation and you should be fine. Don't bother with the "finger buddy" trick since it won't help you all that much and it just makes the purple circles harder.

Also, while lacking an operative isn't too noticeable on that fight, lacking a non-Jugg tank *is*. If either of your tanks have an assassin or a pt that they play well, you might want to consider making the switch. It isn't what is killing you on this phase by any means, but it will make things harder for you down the road and with other bosses (especially the dread masters).
I should restate. Lack of operative is definitely not the problem, but it's one possible aspect that I've noticed over time: groups who are on the verge of clearing content can often benefit by taking an Operative. Brontes and Tyrans are both HM fights where I have seen this effect in pugs or guilds.

I've been in plenty of groups that easily clear with commando/commando or commando/sage, but for that particular phase of the fight operatives have always been strong due to prestacking hots and then being able to focus spikes. They can usually heal through mechanical errors, but I'd rather this group address their mechanics first so I don't think a class change is necessary.
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Propz's Avatar


Propz
01.02.2014 , 12:58 PM | #7
I think it might be the purple circles to be honest.
As a tank... I communicate with our other tank and we are slamming every orb with the hand.
We also are not taking all that much damage...or atleast we have been able to manage it with our cooldowns.

I think we will skip the finger buddy idea, and use the "run through" your finger during a purple circle.
I honestly think that is what is whiping us. Is that purple circle.

Both of our healers are pretty competitive with healing... they each are hitting over 4k hps, and our lowest dps is at 2k dps....with our snipers considerably higher.

We are giving a couple more hours at this on Friday night, so I will try to make the adjustments and see what happens. Each week we are getting further and further, but this phase has been blocking us for abit.
Propz - 55 Jugg | Nastradamus - 55 PT | Kirban - 55 Sin
Mindgamez - 55 Sorc | Truzt - 55 Op | Gyza - 55 Merc
Danarus - 55 Mara | Balwin - 55 Sniper

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
01.02.2014 , 02:36 PM | #8
The best thing that you can do is collect logs from every single person in your raid. Find out precisely why people are dying and that will paint a much clearer picture.

I won't rehash what others have said, but assuming correct positioning, people likely are standing in purple circles.
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tman_ac's Avatar


tman_ac
01.02.2014 , 05:29 PM | #9
Have to agree on what's already been said in here: Some of your guys are most likely eating purple circles.

It is very easy to avoid them. Start in melee range and if you get a circle, just run through the finger to the opposite site (but stay in melee range).
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Jerba's Avatar


Jerba
01.02.2014 , 11:58 PM | #10
Regarding the fingers, there are two ways they turn enrage and do a lot of damage to the raid:

1) When no player is standing in melee range to them when their cast finishes.

2) When they are not killed within 20 seconds after they are first damaged.

In each case, you can see a stackable debuff on the players when a finger goes enrage, so if your healers see such a debuff, it means you did something wrong. Note that the debuff will appear at a random player, so the player who has the debuff is not necessarily the player that did something wrong. The debuff will increase damage taken by 50% per stack.

Quote: Originally Posted by Propz View Post
Our snipers drop aoe on the 2nd/3rd fingers and focus down the first one with everyone else...
I believe this to be the reason you are taking so much damage. You are damaging the 2nd/3rd fingers too early and then cannot kill them within the 20 seconds.
If you want to use AoE, place it on the 1st and 2nd fingers. The first fingers should go down fairly quickly, and then you should still be in time to kill the 2nd fingers.

Just check if you are getting those debuffs during that phase. If you do not, then this is not the problem, it is something else. A video recording of the fight would really help with finding out what you are doing wrong.