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Juggernaut DPS, Vengeance Rotation help needed.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Juggernaut DPS, Vengeance Rotation help needed.

Otchiver's Avatar


Otchiver
12.16.2013 , 01:01 PM | #1
So, i've just finished leveling a Jugg DPS.
He's got great gear, and the Obronian Serendipitous Assault relic as well as the Focused Retribution.
My first parse without too much in the way of notes came up with about 2422 (Trimmed to 300s)
http://www.torparse.com/a/523276

I could use some tips on Rotation.
My opener and through rotation.
Saber throw > Force Charge > Sundering Assault > Ravage > Impale > Ravage (if avail) > Shatter > Ravage (if Avail) > Force scream (if stacked) > Vicious throw > Ravage (if avail).
I'll use Enrage if needed and am low on focus.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#10...osRrfczZf00z.3 is the tree i am using right now.

I could use tips... i know there's a better way to do it.

lordbadtamaru's Avatar


lordbadtamaru
12.16.2013 , 01:33 PM | #2
Check link below. In Guardian terms, but there is a translater.
You know who I am. I am here to troll da mad dawg.
Eph u troll. l2p u wersd grdian l2p.
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lordbadtamaru's Avatar


lordbadtamaru
12.16.2013 , 01:39 PM | #3
Your opener is funky.

it needs to be Saber Throw, Charge, Ravage, Shatter, Enrage AND Impale at the SAME TIME, Scream, Ravage again if procced, Vicious Throw if procced, rinse and repeat.

You need to keep your Impale and Shatter burns up 100 percent of the time, because you need to proc rampage as fast as possible, plus, for every shatter there is 1.3 impale, you want to get impale and shatter on cooldown all the time so you can do the max amount of impales, making your dps a lot more static, with Scream as much as resource allows. Remember when you proc ravage you have 6 seconds to use it, as the lockout is 9 seconds but the channel is 3 seconds, effectively making your window 6 seconds.

Before you ravage, make sure that the following conditions are met:

You have Impale and Shatter on cooldown and they will be on cooldown for the next 3 seconds

If you have impale and shatter on cooldown for more than 4.5 seconds AND you have more than 4 rage, you use scream.

You have enough resource for the next burn rotation cycle.

Vigilance/Veng is a simple alternating burst sustained cycle with filler, Ravage, and all 3 burns piled together.

Rest of information like build (two variations) what to do in a burn phase, and other optimization goodies are in the guide.

Enjoy and make sure to leave a comment or concerns!
You know who I am. I am here to troll da mad dawg.
Eph u troll. l2p u wersd grdian l2p.
Jonny4GrdRep so devs listen, and cringe!

vadess's Avatar


vadess
12.19.2013 , 01:04 PM | #4
Hello there! I'm taking this from the guide I wrote up on vengeance juggernauting.

Vengeance juggernauts aren't really rotation DPS but priority DPS. Priority I think should be getting your bleeds up above all else. For that reason, I prefer this opener:
  1. Saber Throw
  2. Force Charge
  3. Shatter
  4. Enrage
  5. Impale
  6. Force Scream
  7. Vicious Throw (If destroyer proc'd)
  8. Ravage (if no destroyer)
  9. Vicious Throw
  10. Sundering Assault

Priority Tips
  • Priority: After your opener your priority is 1) Getting bleeds up (Shatter-> Impale-> Force Scream) 2) Proccing rampage 3) Vicious Throw
  • Shatter and Impale: Try to get in two Impales in between Shatter CDs.
  • Savagery Stacks: Shatter and Impale, as well as Vicious throw, proc savagery stacks. Savagery, when stacked twice, ensures FS hits the target critically 100% of the time. Make sure to stack two before using Force Scream though there are times when you can use Scream with just one stack of it. Make sure to NOT use three in a row before using Force Scream, as that wastes savagery stacks. Make sure to never use three before using FS. are always paired before FS. This is because Sh and Ip are our main bleeds, and they build 2 stacks of Savagery.
  • Vicious Throw (VT) can be used whenever Destroyer is proc’d. This is a nifty thing about vengeance, but tricky to execute. VT does a lot of burst damage and gives one stack of savagery. When Destroyer gets proc’d, try not to use VT til your bleeds are up. The trick is to keep an eye on Savagery stacks, as if you already have 2, there is no point in using Sh or VT or Ip before using FS, as that just wastes a stack.The only time VT has priority is when the boss has <30% of health; in those circumstances, it usually replaces IP in rotation priority.
  • Ravage and Rampage: I've found that it is not good to use Ravage as soon as Rampage procs. Since its chances of happening only occur once every 9s, it is best is to follow through on your bleeds before using ravage. What I try to do is not use ravage unless I have at least 2 bleeds ticking at the same time. The exception to this is if ravage cools down on its own. In that case, use it immediately to get a chance at proccing Rampage again. Also try to clip it at ~0.3-0.2 milliseconds if you can.
  • Fillers/Rage Builders: Sundering Assault, Smash, Assault and Throw are our rage builders/fillers. Use these to build rage, and fill in as you wait for RV and the bleeds to come off cd.
  • Vicious Slash: Can be used as filler as well IF AND ONLY IF your rage meter has 8+ rage in it. If not, use assault

And that's pretty much it rotation wise. Good luck playing around with the dummy!
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lordbadtamaru's Avatar


lordbadtamaru
12.19.2013 , 01:51 PM | #5
I've repeatedly found that the Veng/Vig rotation is funny in that there are times where you will be pigeon holed into wasting a stack of Force Rush (scream autocrit, sowwy guardian terminology pops into my head :P) simply due to resource constraints. Usually, Scream should be your lowest priority dot IMHO as it doesn't proc rampage and for best dps you need to squeeze in Impale within Shatter at that 1.3 per shatter mark. Otherwise your bleeding DPS. Delaying Scream by 1 or 2 GCDS to rebuild resource afterwards is completely valid.

The destroyer proc you have TWENTY seconds to use. Think of it as a filler. Most of the time, you WILL be using it as a filler, the buff lasts for so long you really don't have to worry about using it on the ball.

Personally, I NEVER use Ravage the moment rampage procs. Its almost always precisely 6 seconds after cause refreshing all 3 dots without clipping ravage time is insanely time consuming considering how short the Vengeance Ability Cycle is.

Also I noticed in your guide, for your opener you have TWO openers with one being bleeds first and the other being ravage. IF you put bleeds first you technically are doing more dps than the other opener IF ravage does not proc from rampage. IF it does, you would have had more dps from the traditional ravage first opener.
You know who I am. I am here to troll da mad dawg.
Eph u troll. l2p u wersd grdian l2p.
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ssfish's Avatar


ssfish
12.19.2013 , 03:41 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by lordbadtamaru View Post
I've repeatedly found that the Veng/Vig rotation is funny in that there are times where you will be pigeon holed into wasting a stack of Force Rush (scream autocrit, sowwy guardian terminology pops into my head :P) simply due to resource constraints. Usually, Scream should be your lowest priority dot IMHO as it doesn't proc rampage and for best dps you need to squeeze in Impale within Shatter at that 1.3 per shatter mark. Otherwise your bleeding DPS. Delaying Scream by 1 or 2 GCDS to rebuild resource afterwards is completely valid.

The destroyer proc you have TWENTY seconds to use. Think of it as a filler. Most of the time, you WILL be using it as a filler, the buff lasts for so long you really don't have to worry about using it on the ball.

Personally, I NEVER use Ravage the moment rampage procs. Its almost always precisely 6 seconds after cause refreshing all 3 dots without clipping ravage time is insanely time consuming considering how short the Vengeance Ability Cycle is.

Also I noticed in your guide, for your opener you have TWO openers with one being bleeds first and the other being ravage. IF you put bleeds first you technically are doing more dps than the other opener IF ravage does not proc from rampage. IF it does, you would have had more dps from the traditional ravage first opener.
I always go with the 3 GCD rule after Rampage procs. If you wait until 6 seconds, then your Ravage ends at 9, which is when you can proc your next one. If you do 3 GCDs (4.5 seconds), Ravage, then use V.Throw (or other filler) to clip the end of Ravage, then your next ability has the chance to proc Rampage (I know in a perfect world, this would actually put us at ~8.9 seconds, but latency is reliable).

In the long run, it's no different than your approach, assuming the next ability after Ravage in your method is always Impale/Shatter.
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vadess's Avatar


vadess
12.19.2013 , 08:21 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by ssfish View Post
I always go with the 3 GCD rule after Rampage procs. If you wait until 6 seconds, then your Ravage ends at 9, which is when you can proc your next one. If you do 3 GCDs (4.5 seconds), Ravage, then use V.Throw (or other filler) to clip the end of Ravage, then your next ability has the chance to proc Rampage (I know in a perfect world, this would actually put us at ~8.9 seconds, but latency is reliable).

In the long run, it's no different than your approach, assuming the next ability after Ravage in your method is always Impale/Shatter.
Do you prefer in your opener to use ravages after throw and charge, or to get your bleeds up? I prefer later because ravage is a lot of damage anyway and I'd much rather get the bleeds giving, especially if it's a fight where you only have a small window to deal damage like the second boss fight in dread fortress.
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lordbadtamaru's Avatar


lordbadtamaru
12.19.2013 , 10:44 PM | #8
If your opener is 9 or 12 seconds or less window (not sure which one was it but its one of the two, probably 12), dots first. longer, ravage first then dots then ravage assuming you are lucky.
You know who I am. I am here to troll da mad dawg.
Eph u troll. l2p u wersd grdian l2p.
Jonny4GrdRep so devs listen, and cringe!

lordbadtamaru's Avatar


lordbadtamaru
12.19.2013 , 10:48 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by ssfish View Post
I always go with the 3 GCD rule after Rampage procs. If you wait until 6 seconds, then your Ravage ends at 9, which is when you can proc your next one. If you do 3 GCDs (4.5 seconds), Ravage, then use V.Throw (or other filler) to clip the end of Ravage, then your next ability has the chance to proc Rampage (I know in a perfect world, this would actually put us at ~8.9 seconds, but latency is reliable).

In the long run, it's no different than your approach, assuming the next ability after Ravage in your method is always Impale/Shatter.
Oh yeah my personal mandate is 100 percent uptime on impale and shatter, with scream right under (There are times where you have to make the judgement call due to resource and GCD constraints and at those times, impale and shatter win almost always for me)
You know who I am. I am here to troll da mad dawg.
Eph u troll. l2p u wersd grdian l2p.
Jonny4GrdRep so devs listen, and cringe!

ssfish's Avatar


ssfish
12.20.2013 , 11:00 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by vadess View Post
Do you prefer in your opener to use ravages after throw and charge, or to get your bleeds up? I prefer later because ravage is a lot of damage anyway and I'd much rather get the bleeds giving, especially if it's a fight where you only have a small window to deal damage like the second boss fight in dread fortress.
It's up to RNG on which way is better. If you get Rampage, leading with Ravage was correct. If you don't, then bleeds are the way to go. But as you say, fight mechanics play a role, as well. I don't know the DF/DP bosses, so I can't speak to the ideal for them.

In general, my ideal opener looks something like:

S. Throw
Leap/Enrage
Ravage
Shatter
Impale
Scream
Ravage
V.Throw

If things are going my way, then it goes into (with filler where appropriate):

Sunder
Impale
Scream
Shatter
Ravage
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