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Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
12.13.2013 , 11:50 PM | #1
Ok, stop me if you heard this one....

Concealments doing 9k crits is overpowered...

Meanwhile in other specs;

10k Crit

Fallenturtle's Avatar


Fallenturtle
12.14.2013 , 07:54 PM | #2
The dev team has really dropped the ball on our class.. I mean, it's been a couple of months since they put up a thread on ideas how to improve our class and not a single peep has been heard from them other than ZOMG LOOK AT THIS SPACE BS!

It would be nice if they actually, you know, COMMUNICATED With the community..
The Drakenhoff Legacy.
<Assimilation>/<Working as intended>
<Jedi Covenant>
In Domus De Aurum Et Ossuim Resistance is futile.

dbears's Avatar


dbears
12.15.2013 , 10:02 AM | #3
But haven't you heard? We can heal, and that gets factored in to our balancing. What you should've done is:

Get Mauled for 10.5k
Pop Cloaking Screen and blow all of your energy to Exfiltrate to a safe location
Heal to full and make them pay (thanks sorcs)

This will only take you about 20 seconds, and all the while I'm sure your team is doing fine without you anyway because our class is useless in PvP unless we heal.

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
12.16.2013 , 04:53 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by dbears View Post
But haven't you heard? We can heal, and that gets factored in to our balancing. What you should've done is:

Get Mauled for 10.5k
Pop Cloaking Screen and blow all of your energy to Exfiltrate to a safe location
Heal to full and make them pay (thanks sorcs)

This will only take you about 20 seconds, and all the while I'm sure your team is doing fine without you anyway because our class is useless in PvP unless we heal.
Except you forgot the uncleanseable dot that was on you when you used cloaking screen....

Ok, so by the community's logic... Take our heals away... Give us autocrit on hidden strike; Increase our spike damage by 30%. Call it even... That sounds fair to me how about you guys?

dbears's Avatar


dbears
12.16.2013 , 05:30 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Ahebish View Post
Except you forgot the uncleanseable dot that was on you when you used cloaking screen....

Ok, so by the community's logic... Take our heals away... Give us autocrit on hidden strike; Increase our spike damage by 30%. Call it even... That sounds fair to me how about you guys?
Uncleansable DOT? Just waste your Evasion and Purge that right off.

I HAVE seen some pretty silly suggestions in the Operative DPS Brainstorming thread. Like a toggle box to turn our heals off but increase our damage Lmao.

We need a moderate boost to our sustainable damage and a complete rework of our survivability as a DPS. Just because we can heal doesn't make it practical or viable for us to do so. We ARE a melee class after all. It's not as easy for us to LoS, heal to full and make them pay (sorry sorcs) lol.

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
12.16.2013 , 05:41 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by dbears View Post
Uncleansable DOT? Just waste your Evasion and Purge that right off.

I HAVE seen some pretty silly suggestions in the Operative DPS Brainstorming thread. Like a toggle box to turn our heals off but increase our damage Lmao.

We need a moderate boost to our sustainable damage and a complete rework of our survivability as a DPS. Just because we can heal doesn't make it practical or viable for us to do so. We ARE a melee class after all. It's not as easy for us to LoS, heal to full and make them pay (sorry sorcs) lol.
I do agree with the damage increase assessment.

Let me clarify further; there are unpurgeable dots and uncleanseable dots... neither of which can be removed by Evasion.... :/

unpurgeables are the ones that break our cloaking screen, uncleanseable means, even with evasion the dot persists, and our cleanse ability is usless against them.... such as Lethality dots are unpurgeable and uncleanseable, unless said ability is used 2ice in a row. Now the lethality dots can be cleansed but you have to use cleanse twice in a row... evasion counts for 1 of the 2 attempts. And evasion does not purge all puregable effects, because some are unpurgeable...

Sorc dots for example cannot be purged with evasion, and cleanse is useless against them. I think they are more classified as mind altering skills? In either case, it's not just sorcs, I've seen uncleanseable dots from BH's and assassins as well. I don't know what they are called though. But, I know I've had BH's pull me out of stealth after cloaking screen and through evasion after the fact... and without using stealth scan.

Point being, this class; People justify our heals and low DPS is fine, yet as a heal class we cannot purge/cleanse damaging effects... that kinda shoots a hole through the logic the community feels is justified and more closely borders on biased opinions.

Yet, merc's can purge and cleanse what we can't including our own damage over time effects, Sorcs can purge and cleanse any dot type damage we use against them. Doesn't exactly sound fair to me... while justifying our healing and damage output at the same time... To me it's just an epic failure in logic.

But your point is well taken.

dbears's Avatar


dbears
12.16.2013 , 05:56 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Ahebish View Post
Let me clarify further; there are unpurgeable dots and uncleanseable dots... neither of which can be removed by Evasion.... :/

unpurgeables are the ones that break our cloaking screen, uncleanseable means, even with evasion the dot persists, and our cleanse ability is usless against them.... such as Lethality dots are unpurgeable and uncleanseable, unless said ability is used 2ice in a row. Now the lethality dots can be cleansed but you have to use cleanse twice in a row... evasion counts for 1 of the 2 attempts. And evasion does not purge all puregable effects, because some are unpurgeable...

Sorc dots for example cannot be purged with evasion, and cleanse is useless against them. I think they are more classified as mind altering skills? In either case, it's not just sorcs, I've seen uncleanseable dots from BH's and assassins as well. I don't know what they are called though. But, I know I've had BH's pull me out of stealth after cloaking screen and through evasion after the fact... and without using stealth scan.

Point being, this class; People justify our heals and low DPS is fine, yet as a heal class we cannot purge/cleanse damaging effects... that kinda shoots a hole through the logic the community feels is justified and more closely borders on biased opinions.

Yet, merc's can purge and cleanse what we can't including our own damage over time effects, Sorcs can purge and cleanse any dot type damage we use against them. Doesn't exactly sound fair to me... while justifying our healing and damage output at the same time... To me it's just an epic failure in logic.
Toxin Scan, Expunge, (whatever the merc one is) are all classified as CLEANSES since 2.5. These WILL remove most DOTs if they are of the appropriate type. Yes, you have to cleanse Lethality DOTs twice to fully get rid of them, but the weakened versions WILL NOT remove you from stealth (says so right in the talent).

PURGES like Evasion and Force Shroud remove all negative effects on you, including the unCLEANSABLE Madness ones. You could have more DOTs on you than a kid with chicken pox or a teenager with a bad case of acne.. If you use Evasion, it removes everything. I've personally done it many times.

The Madness DOTs are uncleansable so healers can't just cleanse them off every few seconds. Purges have a much longer cooldown and are personal cooldowns, thus giving the Madness people a chance to do some damage.

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
12.16.2013 , 06:00 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by dbears View Post
Toxin Scan, Expunge, (whatever the merc one is) are all classified as CLEANSES since 2.5. These WILL remove most DOTs if they are of the appropriate type. Yes, you have to cleanse Lethality DOTs twice to fully get rid of them, but the weakened versions WILL NOT remove you from stealth (says so right in the talent).

PURGES like Evasion and Force Shroud remove all negative effects on you, including the unCLEANSABLE Madness ones. You could have more DOTs on you than a kid with chicken pox or a teenager with a bad case of acne.. If you use Evasion, it removes everything. I've personally done it many times.

The Madness DOTs are uncleansable so healers can't just cleanse them off every few seconds. Purges have a much longer cooldown and are personal cooldowns, thus giving the Madness people a chance to do some damage.
I did notice that as well; So if you cleanse once, the weakened lethality dot should not pull you out of stealth, which is nice.

The problem is those DPS sorcs are hitting for 8-9k crits at the same time... so I can't justify an unpurgeable/uncleanseable damage over time effect while they are allowed to crit for 8-9k.... Next time I see that I'll be sure to screenshot it since people will not believe me otherwise.

dbears's Avatar


dbears
12.16.2013 , 06:05 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Ahebish View Post
I did notice that as well; So if you cleanse once, the weakened lethality dot should not pull you out of stealth, which is nice.

The problem is those DPS sorcs are hitting for 8-9k crits at the same time... so I can't justify an unpurgeable/uncleanseable damage over time effect while they are allowed to crit for 8-9k.... Next time I see that I'll be sure to screenshot it since people will not believe me otherwise.
Oh I believe you. You're probably getting critically hit with Lightning Strike or the initial damage of Crushing Darkness buffed by Wrath (35% increased damage)

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
12.16.2013 , 06:06 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by dbears View Post
Oh I believe you. You're probably getting critically hit with Lightning Strike or the initial damage of Crushing Darkness buffed by Wrath (35% increased damage)
Also no, evasion does NOT remove everything. That much I know as fact... because I see it every single day; It may be supposed to, but it sure as hell is not doing this.

Since I've come back I've been pvp'ing about 20-30 matches/day in wz's... and EVERY wz I see it happening at least once if not multiple times where evasion does not remove all damaging effects.