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Changes Needed for Jugg Tanking In PVE.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Changes Needed for Jugg Tanking In PVE.

Coriantum's Avatar


Coriantum
01.10.2014 , 01:59 PM | #41
Add Threat to Saber Throw because in it's current condition it's horrible.
Add Threat to Backhand ^see above

I wouldn't mind if they took away Saber Reflects Threat because in all reality it wasn't a necessary buff to our threat generation. I had no issues with threat whatsoever pre2.0, but hey if they keep it the same it'll just be easier to hold group threat. And by easier I mean mind numbingly boring easy.

A lot of debate on "dps" of juggernaut tanks, and I feel that they do not need a buff in this department at all. Like I said previously, no issues whatsoever with threat generation. This is with my <Suckafish> dps groups. They're amazing. If I have to blow a taunt early for anything other than a tank swap, I feel like I'm doing it wrong. I hardly ever taunt unless a swap, and yes you can say why the heck wouldn't you taunt and I'd kindly reply I find myself in the position of not needing to.

Jugg tanks are fine. Buff Saber Throw and Backhand. That's it. If ANYTHING, we're too OP. Hit me with a nerfbat because before 2.0 tanking was fun on a Guardian/Juggernaut due to it being more difficult than the other two tanks (yes, I have all 6 of them), and now it is so incredibly easy to tank that it's boring.

For your consideration, my PvE Immortal Guide --> http://suckafish.enjin.com/forum/m/2...05-20-immortal

Your friendly neighborhood Juggernaut Tank,
Puddlezz - Bastion
Member of <Suckafish>
Puddlezz 55 Juggernaut Xaron 55 Powertech
Kel'sara 55 Assassin

Vaidinah's Avatar


Vaidinah
01.11.2014 , 12:10 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Coriantum View Post
Add Threat to Saber Throw because in it's current condition it's horrible.
Add Threat to Backhand ^see above

I wouldn't mind if they took away Saber Reflects Threat because in all reality it wasn't a necessary buff to our threat generation. I had no issues with threat whatsoever pre2.0, but hey if they keep it the same it'll just be easier to hold group threat. And by easier I mean mind numbingly boring easy.

A lot of debate on "dps" of juggernaut tanks, and I feel that they do not need a buff in this department at all. Like I said previously, no issues whatsoever with threat generation. This is with my <Suckafish> dps groups. They're amazing. If I have to blow a taunt early for anything other than a tank swap, I feel like I'm doing it wrong. I hardly ever taunt unless a swap, and yes you can say why the heck wouldn't you taunt and I'd kindly reply I find myself in the position of not needing to.

For your consideration, my PvE Immortal Guide --> http://suckafish.enjin.com/forum/m/2...05-20-immortal

Your friendly neighborhood Juggernaut Tank,
Puddlezz - Bastion
I'm confused at your comments on Jugg tank DPS and threat. While I agree that our DPS is fine and our threat isn't too bad, your guide states that you are using a DPS adrenal (specifically crit) on your opener. If you believe that our threat is fine, then why lower your survivability by doing this? If it's because we have a lot of other defensive cooldowns, I would disagree that it's worth it.
The Harbinger
Intrepid

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Guide: From Beginner to Master

Coriantum's Avatar


Coriantum
01.11.2014 , 05:17 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaidinah View Post
I'm confused at your comments on Jugg tank DPS and threat. While I agree that our DPS is fine and our threat isn't too bad, your guide states that you are using a DPS adrenal (specifically crit) on your opener. If you believe that our threat is fine, then why lower your survivability by doing this? If it's because we have a lot of other defensive cooldowns, I would disagree that it's worth it.
This is a great question, and to put it in the most simple way possible, I used the Critical adrenal ever since I started tanking back in Karagga's Palace. It isn't meant to be a DPS adrenal at all, it is purely a TPS adrenal (crits are 2.5-3x threat gen than normal). Back then, our threat was needing a buff, and that was how I found it.

That being said, with the buffs from 2.0 I believe our threat is fine. Nowadays, I normally hit the adrenal out of habit+offering myself an extra cushion in terms of keeping ahead of DPS threat. I don't believe that it's needed at all.

In regards to lowering my survivability, I would not open with a crit adrenal if I knew I had to use a defensive adrenal within the cool down time period, for example Nightmare Thrasher.
Member of <Suckafish>
Puddlezz 55 Juggernaut Xaron 55 Powertech
Kel'sara 55 Assassin

AgustusCaesar's Avatar


AgustusCaesar
02.15.2014 , 05:46 PM | #44
Well , It appears that the DEVS are Changing ED to become a pure defensive cool down now.
I guess that is a Buff to the class, even though we will only be able to use it 1 or 2 x a fight.

Requiring a target to use smash will result in a over all Nerf to both threat and damage.
Even if it delays a smash by 1 or 2 GCD that is a nerf.

I think we can say that 95% of people who posted agree that Juggs are behind on threat generation, one way or another. Some of You may argue that Jug tank dps is not behind. But I would prefer a dps buff to over come this Threat imbalance , or a offensive cool down added (or attach to another ability) BC Like i said in the original post , Juggs are the only tanking class with No Dps Cool Down. Yes , A Buff to saber throw would help. Yes , a buff to retaliation would help as well.

Excise's Avatar


Excise
02.15.2014 , 05:54 PM | #45
Great post, and threat/DPS has always seemed very low to me.

My poorly geared Assassin, both for single target and multiples, does way better at holding agro than my much better geared Jedi Guardian.

AgustusCaesar's Avatar


AgustusCaesar
02.15.2014 , 07:42 PM | #46
You know y'all have mentioned reducing the threat bonus that saber reflect has, and applying it to other ability's.

I think that was designed as a way to better controller adds, the area where jugg tanking is the weakest.

I don't feel this will help anything by removing the threat bonus that saber reflect .

Adding a higher threat modifier to saber throw , or adding an Offensive cool down to the class i believe is a better direction.

Vaidinah's Avatar


Vaidinah
02.16.2014 , 03:20 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by AgustusCaesar View Post
You know y'all have mentioned reducing the threat bonus that saber reflect has, and applying it to other ability's.

I think that was designed as a way to better controller adds, the area where jugg tanking is the weakest.

I don't feel this will help anything by removing the threat bonus that saber reflect .

Adding a higher threat modifier to saber throw , or adding an Offensive cool down to the class i believe is a better direction.
I mentioned it and my idea was to put it on Enrage instead of Saber Reflect with the exact same 8592 threat generation to all enemies. Thus, you would still get the same threat gain to everything, but on a skill that should always be used near the beginning of every fight. The only problem is that you won't be able to precast Enrage so that it comes up a bit faster than the next time, but that's a small price to pay.
The Harbinger
Intrepid

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Guide: From Beginner to Master

Tygranir's Avatar


Tygranir
02.17.2014 , 08:20 AM | #48
When tanking in PVE, there are only 2 things you need to do: Hold Threat and mitigate damage. Juggs are not bad at either ATM, but could use a little boost to keep them in line with PTs. Survivabilty wise, we don't need much. We could just use a small boost to latent aggro for when a random DPS decides to burn the mob that isn't focused (Happens far too often).

Tanking Juggs don't need a DPS boost in PVE, because Tanks should be trying to burn down mobs. That isn't your job.
I am eating your canon, and pooping your immersion.

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
02.17.2014 , 08:50 AM | #49
Here's how i see the 3 types of tanks

You have Juggernauts who are the middle, Good Threat, Good Midigation, the middle ground.

You have Powertechs Great Midigation, lower threat, better for a Main Tank because of the bigger midigation pool

And you have Sin Tanks Great Threat, low midigation, perfect for an Adds tank because they can pick the adds up and maul them to death.

Juggernauts are in a perfectly fine position for tanking, the only thing i would want, is Saber Throw to give more threat and a free stack of Revenge (the buff that reduces cost of Smash and Scream)

AgustusCaesar's Avatar


AgustusCaesar
02.17.2014 , 12:44 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Tygranir View Post
When tanking in PVE, there are only 2 things you need to do: Hold Threat and mitigate damage. Juggs are not bad at either ATM, but could use a little boost to keep them in line with PTs. Survivabilty wise, we don't need much. We could just use a small boost to latent aggro for when a random DPS decides to burn the mob that isn't focused (Happens far too often).

Tanking Juggs don't need a DPS boost in PVE, because Tanks should be trying to burn down mobs. That isn't your job.
The Idea behind adding a slight dps boost to Jugg tanks it NOT to burn mobs faster. Its to generate more agro. There is also a fact that juggs do not have any offensive cool downs( while both of the other tanking classes do). So to kill 2 birds with one stone , adding a Off cool down would help with the agro issue and give the slight dps boost that is needed......< Maybe the devs could put it on a 4 min cool down.>.....sarcasm

Also after reading the 2.7 patch notes it looks like we will be getting another cool down so our overall survivability will go up some more.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Here's how i see the 3 types of tanks

You have Juggernauts who are the middle, Good Threat, Good Midigation, the middle ground.

You have Powertechs Great Midigation, lower threat, better for a Main Tank because of the bigger midigation pool

And you have Sin Tanks Great Threat, low midigation, perfect for an Adds tank because they can pick the adds up and maul them to death.

Juggernauts are in a perfectly fine position for tanking, the only thing i would want, is Saber Throw to give more threat and a free stack of Revenge (the buff that reduces cost of Smash and Scream)
I really have to disagree with " the way you se it " On paper juggs have the lowest mitigation while assassins have the highest. Also Juggs have the lowest dps and threat generation of all the tank classes while PT and Sins are very similar on both. The thing that makes Jugg tanks Viable is the abundance of cool downs.
i dont think any one is saying juggs arnt ok. this thread was put up to talk about what places pve jugg tanking could be improved. 90% of the current threads are pvp focused. this thread is about pve jugg tanking only.