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Darth Sidious vs Darth Caedus


LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
12.18.2013 , 05:33 PM | #41
Sorry but your post stinks of bias, you have practically ignored almost the entirety of my post and instead have only nitpicked times where he wasn't a completely perfect boringly over-powered Sith like most of the big fish Dark Lords are.

If you dislike him simply say so, don't just shove your opinion into a post and claim it's fact.
"The Empire is war made manifest. That is why it is perfect."
Imperial Order

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.18.2013 , 05:46 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Ausstig View Post
Just accept that Jacen is a bad Sith and Caedus is a dumb idea. He was never cool and he was only a little bit threatening.
Because that doesn't demonstrate you to be completely biased and invalidate your argument completely.

*slow clap*

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
07.08.2014 , 07:59 AM | #43
Necro lol.

In all seriousness this has always been a battle that interests me more than any other in regards to Sidious I genuinely think besides GM Luke that Caedus is the only who can legitimately challenge and threaten RotS Palps without amps, etc..

So again I'm reviving this thread, so we can get down to a winner here, which would have interesting repercussions.
"The Empire is war made manifest. That is why it is perfect."
Imperial Order

CaulderBenson's Avatar


CaulderBenson
07.08.2014 , 10:57 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Jaina Solo showed he was far beyond her, even injured as he was, she got absolutely dismantled and she only managed to kill him because he frankly wasn't paying her much attention and was severely injured, with one arm gone, one crippled leg and a hole through his stomach, he still took off one of her arms and managed to force wave her into a wall and still carried on, if he had chosen, he could have killed her, he chose otherwise.
I have no interest in the Caedus/Sidious debate but I do want to say that the underlined did not happen. Jaina never lost an appendage in battle against Caedus or any opponent up through the LOF novels. I haven't read beyond the LOF series.

I'm not sure if that was a typo on your part?

Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Jaina Solo showed he was far beyond her, even injured as he was, she got absolutely dismantled and she only managed to kill him because he frankly wasn't paying her much attention and was severely injured, with one arm gone, one crippled leg and a hole through his stomach,
That's not entirely accurate description of the fight in my opinion. She only sustained a broken arm, and a lightsaber gash to the abdomen. She was also thrown into the wall a couple of times.

Caedus on the other hand actually did want to kill her quickly, but was unable to. When he sees her in front of him and takes a lightsaber to the stomach before he can blink. he's completely focused on his own survival.

The problem for him was that he lost the fight before it started. Jaina overwhelmed him with her relentless assault and, yes, her skill as a cunning combatant.

He opened the incinerator door and Jaina was waiting for him on the other side of the door and he takes his first (but not last) fatal blow of the fight. Either she masked her force presence or he was clueless when it came to sensing danger.

Caedus takes a lightsaber to the stomach as the fight begins.

He then tries force lightning attacks which fail. Jaina blocked and dodge them.

They traded a few physical blows before she impales his face on "half a dozen" syringes down to the barrels, and slices his calf tendon crippling him.

She went for a guaranteed killing blow even though it left her open a fatal retaliatory blow as well. Jaina knew this and didn't care. She wasn't concerned with her own survival, just achieving her goal of killing her brother.

Note, he couldn't stop her from landing the killing blow, and he certainly wanted to.

So even though he could have killed her with his last ounce of strength, he still completely failed to stop her from outright killing him. He chose to put his last bit of energy into a psychic warning meant for Tenel Ka.

The author Troy Denning makes it clear in the novel Jaina outright defeats and kills him. Caedus wanted to kill her quickly so he could go after Allana, but Jaina's onslaught simply overwhelmed him despite his superior command of the force.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
07.08.2014 , 11:13 AM | #45
You have entirely missed the part where his only concern the whole time was stopping his daughter and the mother of his child from being killed via poison and repeatedly attempts to just ragdoll her and get out of the fight.

His focus was off completely and not once, not twice, not thrice but four times does he attempt to end the engagement and leave, leaving himself open to attack, he also unless you forgot was already injured before he even took the abdomen impalement.

He was absolutely off his game here and still nearly killed her on five occasions.
"The Empire is war made manifest. That is why it is perfect."
Imperial Order

CaulderBenson's Avatar


CaulderBenson
07.08.2014 , 11:16 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
You have entirely missed the part where his only concern the whole time was stopping his daughter and the mother of his child from being killed via poison and repeatedly attempts to just ragdoll her and get out of the fight.
No, I didn't. I actually just reread the fight. I'd say you're overestimating his distraction. His goal was to end the fight fast to go save his daughter. Caedus couldn't do it, so he tried to reason with her and failed, then he makes a break for the door and fails.

Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
nearly killed her on five occasions.
Nearly is not the same as actually doing it. She didn't "nearly" kill him. She actually did, and he couldn't stop her from doing so, despite the life of his daughter being at stake.

Like I said, I found your description (or interpretation if you prefer) of the events somewhat inaccurate, and I stand by that.

Your description makes it sound like Caedus was having a bad day and wasn't actually trying to fight for his life. He was, and lost, due to her skill and the savage nature of her attack.

Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
not once, not twice, not thrice but four times does he attempt to end the engagement and leave,
I counted twice. Once when he made for the door (no force speed Caedus?), and once when he tried to reason with her. Both attempts happen after he had already realized he was dead and dying.

Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
he also unless you forgot was already injured before he even took the abdomen impalement.
No, I did not. Injured hand, but sith and jedi often fight at disadvantages. He still had superior strength in the force, size, and strength advantage. A superior force user can still overcome an opponent who is better with a lightsaber. The only force attacks he utilized in the fight were force push and force lighting. I find that sort of curious, actually. Bad writing perhaps?

At full strength he still nearly lost to Mara, the mandalorians, and he did lose to Luke.

I believe you're overestimating Caedus, and underestimating Jaina.

But to each their own. Based on his actual written performances in duels, I find him a bit overrated. He was still formidable, but overrated nonetheless.

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Either way, I've said all I care to say on the matter. The written word is there in the book for people to read and decide for themselves.

You have a nice day.