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How terrible is a concealment Op in PvP?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
How terrible is a concealment Op in PvP?
 

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
12.12.2013 , 02:25 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Cordorian View Post
^this...
being good pre 1.2 with an operative means like absolutely nothing. not that it was totally over the top, but there was no unique level 50 bracket and farming underleveled, undergeared people, that don't know how to counter the class hardly is a sign of skill, especially if you can just two hit them from stealth.
And apparently he hasn't hear of the concept of an arena yet which is not a 1v1 or anything. Especially if coordinated play is involved.
Irony: a situation that is strange or funny because things happen in a way that seems to be the opposite of what you expected.

-There were 50 brackets in 1.2.
-That farming is what lead to the nerfs ******* and the seperation of level 50's.
-And I used to play ranked *******; Nothing of what people piss and whine about now with this class EVER happend then.
-But people like you wouldn't know it, because you were to busy crying for a nerf on the forums instead of learning to play the game.

If you want to sound knowledgeable about the game at least get your facts straight.

Racter's Avatar


Racter
12.12.2013 , 03:14 PM | #22
Yeah because Juggs, Assassins and BHs can 3v1 people through straight damage. Or, you know... At all. Totally.

All I'm seeing from you is madcuzbad. I looked through your post history... Pretty much two straight years of madcuzbad. Hilarious.

BraaxusKun's Avatar


BraaxusKun
12.12.2013 , 03:38 PM | #23
I have a valor 100 operative which I mainly play DPS on, I play both lethality and concealment.

Concealment's damage can keep up with a deception assassins damage if you were just straight beating on each other standing still with no cc, however: operative concealment is FAR squishier, deception sin (same role as conc operative) has more control over people with their various stuns in a fight such as low slash, force stun, knockback, force slow, and spike. Deception sins also have 30% aoe damage reduction and 25% mitigation when popping blackout.

In team play a sin can survive due to their aoe damage reduction and shroud, an operative in a warzone is fine in concealment if you are good, you can put up high numbers, however, in say an arena, you will get globaled due to extremely weak defensive cooldowns - operative dps cannot withstand being focused. (Shield probe is horrible)

sithBracer's Avatar


sithBracer
12.12.2013 , 04:49 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by BraaxusKun View Post
I
Concealment's damage can keep up with a deception assassins damage if you were just straight beating on each other standing still with no cc, however: operative concealment is FAR squishier, deception sin (same role as conc operative) has more control over people with their various stuns in a fight such as low slash, force stun, knockback, force slow, and spike. Deception sins also have 30% aoe damage reduction and 25% mitigation when popping blackout.
A deception sin's biggest asset are the crits he gets from recklessness, extra damage from duplicity procs from both spike and low slash and (if he can get it off) crushing darkness DoT. The DCD isn't really that great and shroud fails half the time and ops also have a DCD and evasion. If they do damage to each other the sin will slaughter the op if he pops recklessness then follows up with shock, discharge and shock, even ignoring the duplicity + maul combos even.

As for CCs, the op has a 30 second CD hard stun (it is low enough in the lethality tree that concealment can access it) , a 8 second AoE mezz instacast, a move to slow the enemy, increase in movement speed (to keep an enemy from locking on target), and the hidden strike is exactly like a spike except it does more damage and adds the acid blade debuff on the target.

They are almost the same except the sin has a few high crit abilities with recklessness, which (almost) goes off CD when the sin exits combat.
Ma'kaela - jedi shadow in training
Mákaela - assassin in the shadows

Perfecteleven's Avatar


Perfecteleven
12.16.2013 , 10:53 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Ahebish View Post
Oh, so it's overpowered when a concealment does it... but not overpowered when an assassin, jug, or BH does it.

I see where this is going.

And it's going down the same *********** avenue that got this class broken to begin with.

Make up your *********** mind.

For the record, I too have used concelment in ranked, but it was when they actually could participate in ranked, you know long before you ever hit puberty.

This class did NOT need a nerf, OTHER CLASSES needed a boost.

Now those classes GOT the boost they should have received from the start, and you come on these forums complaining you can't compete.

lol, keyboard turning... really?

Either you are A. Stupid, or B. Blind.

I'm leaning towards C.

Blind, Stupid, and full of ****.

Btw Einstein, that video you saw, if you notice was filled with level 50's; That was in 1.2.

And ya, I was just that damn good; And, I said this **** would happen long before the nerf's ever got this bad.

But did morons like you listen? No.

You made your bed now you can sleep in it.
You should learn how to have an intelligent conversation. Insulting some one who clearly is skilled and calling people who play ranked bad pvpers makes you sound super butthurt. I've never seen those classes 3v1 some one unless there oponents were seriously under geared and skilled. Hell, in WoW I used to 3v1 people on my rogue all the time. Thats when I was playing unskilled players and my gear was topnotch.

What Racter said was 100% correct. Also, this game will never be balanced in pvp, EVER. They may as well delete the pvp forums. This game doesn't hold a candle to WoW arenas back in BC. I mean, I still get times where my GCD will go but NO skill will go. Every cooldown counts and if thats not even fixed or talked about, theres a chance that these classes will never be balanced, a big big chance. This game is tuned towards pve, which is sadly boring to a lot of us. Scripted encounters are just not fun after heart pounding pvp.

Anways, if you rolled an OP you're either healing, or being useless in Arena. WZ's, play whatever, they dont matter. You will get sick of dying trying to dps, or go OPs healer and hope your dps is better then theres.

wigglebooty's Avatar


wigglebooty
12.17.2013 , 04:38 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Pyka View Post
Here is my two cents for what its worth. Its not a group or team type of game play. Your pretty much a lone wolf looking for targets of opportunity. If big numbers and a TON of kills is what your after this is not the class for you.
I find this to not be at all accurate. I tend to always be one of the top 2 in damage done at the end of every warzone I am in, and yes I play objectives. I ninja cap all the time however I do not spend much time guarding usually as I feel I am much more useful elsewhere because of my ability to pressure healers and dish out large amounts of damage.
All of my damage is single target so I try to stick to attacking healers, sorcs/sages and gunslingers/snipers to avoid being smashed as much as possible. Use your cc's to make 2 and 3 v1 fights become 1v1 fights, kil lthe 1 then vanish and start over. Toss your orbital strike on capture points to help your team when you can. Peel people off your own healers, you have lots of stuns and slows so you are good at that. You can be an amazing team player, and dish out substantial numbers if played correctly. I will admit when I have an 800k game I would have broken 1 million had I been on a sorc or soemthing, but that doesn't mean you still cant out perform they rest of your team because frankly there is a lot of bad people that pvp.
PVP needs the ability to selective queue.

Lundorff's Avatar


Lundorff
12.18.2013 , 06:07 AM | #27
Just hit 24 and having a blast. I find myself being useful both as a guard as well as in direct combat - much fun.

I suspect this will be my final build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#40...zrdrkrhGRZhr.3

What is the optimal rotation?

RyderQuanTy's Avatar


RyderQuanTy
12.18.2013 , 07:28 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
A deception sin's biggest asset are the crits he gets from recklessness, extra damage from duplicity procs from both spike and low slash and (if he can get it off) crushing darkness DoT. The DCD isn't really that great and shroud fails half the time and ops also have a DCD and evasion. If they do damage to each other the sin will slaughter the op if he pops recklessness then follows up with shock, discharge and shock, even ignoring the duplicity + maul combos even.

As for CCs, the op has a 30 second CD hard stun (it is low enough in the lethality tree that concealment can access it) , a 8 second AoE mezz instacast, a move to slow the enemy, increase in movement speed (to keep an enemy from locking on target), and the hidden strike is exactly like a spike except it does more damage and adds the acid blade debuff on the target.

They are almost the same except the sin has a few high crit abilities with recklessness, which (almost) goes off CD when the sin exits combat.
A deception sin can't role away as the fight starts then heal to full and dot the target. In an arena you need to let the party get started take out the weak, dot, and heal. Healing tree gives TA when attcked u have lacerate waiting. and role away. Unlike the sin out of stealth u let the fight come to u.
" The force is only for defence. There is no why"

Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
12.18.2013 , 09:24 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
A deception sin's biggest asset are the crits he gets from recklessness, extra damage from duplicity procs from both spike and low slash and (if he can get it off) crushing darkness DoT. The DCD isn't really that great and shroud fails half the time and ops also have a DCD and evasion. If they do damage to each other the sin will slaughter the op if he pops recklessness then follows up with shock, discharge and shock, even ignoring the duplicity + maul combos even.

As for CCs, the op has a 30 second CD hard stun (it is low enough in the lethality tree that concealment can access it) , a 8 second AoE mezz instacast, a move to slow the enemy, increase in movement speed (to keep an enemy from locking on target), and the hidden strike is exactly like a spike except it does more damage and adds the acid blade debuff on the target.

They are almost the same except the sin has a few high crit abilities with recklessness, which (almost) goes off CD when the sin exits combat.
yet maul unlike backstab has no CD and with duplicity doesnt cost that much force, and it gets those high crits, you can even imagine having on backstab. Assassin if speced into have a very short interrupt (if you are not node guarding you should be harassing healers), and 15s CD mez, 10 m hard stun, force speed that break movement impairing effects (and doesn't cost tons of resources), phase walk, a knockback, a finisher and in saber ward hand down the better CD compared to shield probe. the on demand aoe damage reduction is what every concealment dreams of. You whirlewind with shroud up for another 8s mez. concealment can surely easier dot people up and flashbang is absolutely awesome, but cc wise assassins and ops are roughly on equal footing.

Shroud and Evasion are good for different things, make the next smash on you useless is great, and being immune to an execute is great as well. still i think if it works properly shroud it has down better for the cc and interrupt immunity.

having two cleanses is surely a plus for the operative and los off heal is nice, . But operative self heals are very expensive and you have to kite a lot, so if you use exfiltration for that be assured you run into energy problems. Out side the healing tree, having a second cleanse isnt really that much of an advantage.
Assassins have taunts which are very useful.

to make the story short, assassins in deception have the better on demand burst and better defensive CDs. They are the best 1v1 class, but still do resonably good in a group fight. They are not so bound to start a fight from stealth unlike operatives whose best burst damage dealer is only usable from stealth and is unreliable. Considering that Deception and Concealment are pretty similar in their roles, any sane person would take the assassin over the operation, skill being equal.

And no assassins are not overpowered, it is just concealment is everything deception is but just worse.

Uber_the_Goober's Avatar


Uber_the_Goober
12.18.2013 , 02:57 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by RyderQuanTy View Post
Healing tree gives TA when attcked u have lacerate waiting. and role away.
What? Or is this an attack of the poorly placed comma?

Or roll away, heal yourself, and then you get a TA? Because after the roll and the heal, you've got like no energy...
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