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Pay 2 win crowd taking over


Sledgeweb's Avatar


Sledgeweb
12.06.2013 , 03:24 PM | #251
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRampage View Post
When I see opponents with a lot of ships I expect easy win. And it always like that. Best players at my server are focused on one ship.
Even if you only fly one ship, having the other ships open gives you bonus ship req on them when you complete the daily and weekly, and you can convert that ship req to fleet req to upgrade the one ship you fly. That's the thing, you get an advantage just for owning, and never flying, additional ships (if you are willing to spend the CC to convert the free req to fleet req).

So, let's say you own 3 ships. When you do the daily, you get 750 on each ship. Or, 2,250 fleet req after you convert it. If you own 7 ships, you get 5,250 fleet req you can still spend on the one ship you fly. I think the weekly grants you 2,500 per ship? So that's 7,500 for 3 ships or 17,500 for 7. So, each week, you can gain 23,250 fleet req with the 3 ships, or 54,250 for 7 ships. Almost double. Now, this is only on the daily/weeky missions. You also will earn req by flying. And, if you fly more than one ship using the 2x bonus req of each ship, you can obviously earn a lot more to put toward your favorite ship and master it up even faster. But, the math above works even if you assume you ever only fly one ship. You can almost double the money you get to spend on your one ship by merely owning and not flying all the other ships and converting the ship req you earn on them by default into fleet req.

So, is that pay2win? I'm not sure. But, it's at least something close to it. It's "pay 2 get ahead a lot faster" if nothing else. Now, others will catch up eventually, but, isn't that probably the case in any pay2win situation? I think you have to define what pay2win actually means first. Because, some people just say "well, you still have to have some skill, the upgrades just give an advantage" - well, yes. But, isn't that true with any pay2win system? You still have to have some level of competency to win. You're just buying the ability to make it easier to win.

In the situation I outlined above, you can pay to upgrade and master your ship much faster if you spend CC's. So, given two pilots of equal skill, but one has spent CC's to upgrade and master his ship, and the other hasn't, the one that has paid should win. Is that pay 2 win? Maybe, maybe not. But, we can certainly say it's not just a cosmetic purchase or leveling boost, which is mostly what the cartel market has consisted of until now. It is something new, that does merit some discussion.

Bachannal's Avatar


Bachannal
12.06.2013 , 04:40 PM | #252
Quote: Originally Posted by Atamasama View Post
The only thing I can figure out is that I earn more when my side wins. Other than that, I don't seem to get much more if I'm at the top of the board or not.

One thing I've read (can't say that I've tested it myself) is that objectives give much more reqs than kills and assists. Blowing up turrets, helping capture satellites, and defending satellites is the way to get more points. If you're just flying around trying to find people to kill you won't get as many.

One thing I don't get yet is whether or not you are "defending" a satellite just by being near it, or if it counts the time you're engaged in combat near one. I think it's the former, which means that one strategy is to just camp at a satellite while you sip a beverage and wait for someone to show up.

You nailed it. Capping points and holding them. Defending them. Taking out turrets in the enemies capped points, etc. is what earns you the big rewards. Damage in and of itself, regardless of ending in a kill or not can also reward big...I believe you get bonuses once you do say 10K damage in a single match. Kill assists (I believe) are about on par with an actual kill.

Can't tell you how many matches I have been in that my team lost because all my teammates were doing was wasting time in all out dogfights, rather than bothering with point caps or defense.

I don't think point "camping" actually offers rewards...it's when the opposing team is trying to nab one of your occupied points, and you defend against them that gives you medals and whatnot. As far as I'm aware, aside from the fact that the longer your team holds 2 or more points, the quicker you win the match. Just sitting on an unchallenged and capped point doesn't reward you.

TheOne's Avatar


TheOne
12.06.2013 , 07:44 PM | #253
Quote: Originally Posted by Mazikeen View Post
Please explain to me 1) how one ship is substantially better than another of the same class and 2) how this complaint applies at all beyond the initial 10,000 Fleet Req anyway (since only Scout and Strikers ships have 'upgrades').

On top of this, the standard for 'P2W' has been, for many years, advantages given to players that pay cash that are unavailable to players who do not. Speeding through content, temporary boosts and cosmetics have been left out of that because while they allow players to pay to move faster, the players experience no more content by paying than any other.

Yet another thread of people failing to understand the concept of pay-to-win because they feel they deserve to have things handed to them. The same kind of people that get welfare and food stamps but refuse to actually look for work.
Well for starters the republic scout CC fighter has a weapons booster , 10% stat buff for 6 secs I think.? Hell of a lot better weapons system with seeker launcher, the generic scouts are much weaker but can be very affective with speed skilling.
If you've spent your monthly CC and want the scout ships you have to either wait for your sub to re-new or, (guess what) buy more coins. Killing people faster and effectively is the "content" you get, at least til february.

To answer your next paragraph; you still need to have CC coins to transfer Ship req and upgrade skill trees. The more CC you have and of course the more you play the faster you can out level someone on the battlefield giving yourself a huge advantage (and yes the advantages are significant, I don't care what the leet crews say) we wouldn't have a skill system(tree) if they were non- relevant. , if you have no CC then (guess what) you have to buy more coins. So if you have CC built up you can jump ahead of people. P2W right? After you've bought a scout or two and stuck at tier 3 skills on your fighters that fleet req starts to look real tempting right? You'll need to purchase more coins if you want to transfer.

Well, yet another post with someone with unlimited credit card numbers at their disposal so when they spent 480CC on scout unlock from last weeks sub gift they can just swipe the ol card for some more to buy the next ship, and the next ship, and the next......... or you could just be really awesome and knock out 2k fleet req a day doing missions and be happy, unfortunately most P2W people prefer to take the easy road.

TheOne's Avatar


TheOne
12.06.2013 , 08:24 PM | #254
I know a lot of you don't agree with me but just wait , it will get worse.
The new Cartel pack will hit with the new zebra striped bantha mount and the handmaiden chastity belt (+10)
Then bioware will start to release expansion goodies for our ships via CC, so now instead of one CC market we now have two. (See what they did there) Your monthly CC fund will only cover one market. This is a vicious cycle that we'll have to deal with from now on.
I will keep on playing though , because I love Starwars, at least that's something we can all agree on........

Hassat-Hunter's Avatar


Hassat-Hunter
12.06.2013 , 11:23 PM | #255
Snufff, got 1600 ship comms today from a single match... avarage is about 700+. The daily bonus is peanuts. 3 ships would be about 3 matches. And those 3 matches would improve your skill as well.
And as mentioned P2W means you have to pay for items to win, and if you don't pay you don't get said items. AFAIK all actual effect items can be purchased with ship comms.
You can buy yourself lvl 7 space gear, but that doesn't mean the shooter will eat you up without expertise. Likewise here, stats are a lot less important if the battles are more player accuracy and awareness based than skill based like TOR ground battles.

I hope that new CC will sell alluminium foil hats... then you're forced to buy there XD

EDIT:
And to answer the question, I do think it requires you to be in the 'green stuff around your ship' zone. Hence never ever getting the 1 minute or 4 minute defending achievements, since I would be a pretty lousy defender if I got those...

TheOne's Avatar


TheOne
12.06.2013 , 11:30 PM | #256
Quote: Originally Posted by Hassat-Hunter View Post
Snufff, got 1600 ship comms today from a single match... avarage is about 700+. The daily bonus is peanuts. 3 ships would be about 3 matches. And those 3 matches would improve your skill as well.
And as mentioned P2W means you have to pay for items to win, and if you don't pay you don't get said items. AFAIK all actual effect items can be purchased with ship comms.
You can buy yourself lvl 7 space gear, but that doesn't mean the shooter will eat you up without expertise. Likewise here, stats are a lot less important if the battles are more player accuracy and awareness based than skill based like TOR ground battles.

I hope that new CC will sell alluminium foil hats... then you're forced to buy there XD

EDIT:
And to answer the question, I do think it requires you to be in the 'green stuff around your ship' zone. Hence never ever getting the 1 minute or 4 minute defending achievements, since I would be a pretty lousy defender if I got those...
1600 in one match, whow!!! Man you must be spectacular!
Now go convert that using your CC, oh wait? You need to buy more CC?

Hassat-Hunter's Avatar


Hassat-Hunter
12.06.2013 , 11:53 PM | #257
No, I actually immediately put them into an upgrade for my striker.
And with no CC involved in it as well.

Phantasym's Avatar


Phantasym
12.10.2013 , 03:51 PM | #258
Quote: Originally Posted by GalacticKegger View Post
While Ship Requisitions can be converted to Fleet Requisitions to acquire new ships and crew members, Fleet Requisitions cannot be converted back to Ship Requisitions. In fact, by using Cartel Coins to convert Ship Reqs to Fleet Reqs, the player is essentially screwing themselves out of performance upgrades at the expense of variety.
This is incorrect, while you cant convert Fleet Requisition back into Ship requisition it can be spent in place of ship requisition so if I wanted to by a gun upgrade that cost 1000 requisition for a particular ship but I had only 500 ship req but I had 2000 fleet requisition sitting around I could pay 500 ship and 500 fleet to buy that upgrade. Still paying the same 1000, but I am using some of my fleet requisitions to buy it.

That said you still had to earn that requisition in one way or another, I for example fly all my ships each day for the xp bonus you get for the first match with each one, sometimes this takes more then one match if you do poorly. If you then find there is one particular ship you like best you could gut the ship req from those other ships to turn it into fleet with CC and use it in place of ship req to buy upgrades on the ship you like most. You still earned that ship requisition by flying the other ship though, possibly even took longer or just as long as flying the ship you were good at would have.

Also as far as this thread goes anyone who is playing Starfighter has ZERO reason to complain. The only people in it right now are subscribers, we all get an allotment of cartel coins each month. Converting from ship to fleet does not cost much, 1 CC per 25 converted. I forget how many coins we get each month 500? but that's 12500 that could be converted so there should be no whining