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Dear development team - not another qq/idea/flame/ragequit thread - just one question

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Dear development team - not another qq/idea/flame/ragequit thread - just one question

Whojoo's Avatar


Whojoo
12.09.2013 , 08:57 AM | #11
I honestly didn't read everything here. However I do like to see some positive changes to dps operative/scoundrel.
(And if possible, also give my healer scoundrel a tiny tick with the nerf bat )

/signed

I wish you guys best of luck
The Red Eclipse
Republic Enforcers Suddenly Taken Over

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
12.09.2013 , 06:04 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by RougeBeaver View Post
You've said mostly true things, but Imma have to nitpick this part.

Some of us are worried that if we get our damage back the way it was, this awful community will just tear us down once again (they keep crying over some tiny huttball advantage that exfiltrate gives when we have literally nothing else to bring to huttball, for instance). The least we can do is survive longer than 3-5 GCDs without needing to combat stealth, but it doesn't even look like they can grant us this much. EAware is too incompetent/apathetic to bother finding a suitable middle ground for the DPS Op.

And no I don't think they ever realized the nerf was a mistake, else they never would have gone through with that stupid cover nerf. The one that accomplished nothing than ensuring we're fodder for huttball and will forever be healers or reroll to glowstick heroes.

Fact is, some of our DPS burst WAS our defense. We could actually kill things before they killed us. This was apparently too much for the community to handle so the repeated nerfs were carried out, and we were given nothing in return. Except Exfiltrate, which we don't get until alllll the way until 51 and everyone whines is overpowered no matter how 'meh' it really is, so I suspect that's due for a nerf someday also. Bioware always has to listen to their baddie glowstick heroes who feel they've been outmatched.

The rest of us can just unsub.
FINALLY, someone who understands the whole reason I advocate damage, not survivability or utility with fixing this class. Nice to know at least 1 person knows what I'm talking about.

Fair enough point; Which is why I suggested small steps to change our damage.

Don't go ballistic and revert everything back to a pre-nerf state lol... that will rage people worse than it did the first time.

So small - moderate increases in damage within the current system a little at a time. As long as I know they are considering it... I can wait, so they don't out right break the class again from the get go.

Shenkz's Avatar


Shenkz
12.10.2013 , 03:16 AM | #13
Just one time I wanna get online and read a thread with a developer answer:
"Dear Op/Scoundrel comm we are working hard for the changes that you all deseverd"
I would be a happy man.

/signed

Jinxest's Avatar


Jinxest
12.10.2013 , 03:26 AM | #14
/Signed

Tattum's Avatar


Tattum
12.10.2013 , 09:13 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Ahebish View Post
FINALLY, someone who understands the whole reason I advocate damage, not survivability or utility with fixing this class. Nice to know at least 1 person knows what I'm talking about.

Fair enough point; Which is why I suggested small steps to change our damage.

Don't go ballistic and revert everything back to a pre-nerf state lol... that will rage people worse than it did the first time.

So small - moderate increases in damage within the current system a little at a time. As long as I know they are considering it... I can wait, so they don't out right break the class again from the get go.
exactly.. I didn't play operative pre-nerf .. I made on after 2.0 , before that I played juggernaut (vengeance , not smash) and even after vast nerfing of this class I still find it to be the only class which playstyle I like.. You can track all my posts , threads etc, I've never made a thread (as far as I remember - I've been playing since day negative 5 if you know what I mean) in which I wanted some class to get nerfed becuase of blah blah blah. all I ever asked was not to ruin my game experience even more by nerfing me down over and over again...

and when it comes to high burst to be our defence.. as I mentioned, I never played the class before all those nerfs, but yes, as it is said - the best defense is offense - that is true ... our survivability is very low of which I don't care much but the damage of being bursty-assassin-like class (speaking of concealment) is even lower and that kinda saddens me.
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
BW doesn't listen to their community at all and they pretty much never interact with the community on their forums...

Arcadius-Fett's Avatar


Arcadius-Fett
12.10.2013 , 09:40 AM | #16
Everyday I come into this forum just hoping to hear from a dev that they are working to fix this class, it is in a sorry state at the moment. I love healing but I want to go back to concealment and be viable in arenas. Being a regstar gets boring quick. I fully agree that our damage was indeed a huge part of our survivability. They have a lot of work to do before our DPS specs become viable in ranked.

Talk to us, Bioware!
Ziara - Vanaden
The Shadowlands

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
12.11.2013 , 10:36 AM | #17
To further clarify the need for higher burst and to justify it;

Back in the olden days, when people like me played pre-nerf.

While I agree that the damage was disgustingly high, and later I accept that some of the nerf's were necessary not ALL of the nerf's were (and that includes unforseen nerfs due to mechanical changes such as, Biochem, Stims, relics, armor sets, etc)

The justification:

One thing all operatives/smugs can agree on was energy management; The only exception to this rule are scrappers and concealments; We lived and died by our Burst damage and energy management; At this time energy management was incredibly harsh for concealments and scrappers.

What I would suggest is a trade with Bioware and our sister specs; Give lethality and healers the energy management currently in the system, but revert concealment/scrapper energy systems back to 1.2 standards while at the same time giving us our Burst damage back which we can utilize for survivability based on how well we manage our energy.

That is a check in place of our burst damage; Higher energy consumption for the sake of higher burst and quicker kills in the short term. The longer the fight is, the worse the spec becomes as it runs out of energy, or cannot re-stealth to escape.

Just my thoughts, and that's essentially what made this spec balanced, was the energy consumption issues that all 3 specs suffered from, Concealment used more energy than any other spec did in the short term.... I have 1 damage rotation that I talked about previously in other threads, where I can completely deplete my energy in 1 rotation EVEN WITH the new energy system. But the catch is... give us our auto-crit on HS, and give us our 9 sec CD back on Backstab, because that was the bread and butter skill for concealments/scrappers when we couldn't use Hidden Strike out of stealth. And no we never needed the ability to use Hidden Strike out of stealth to compete.

Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
12.11.2013 , 10:45 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ahebish View Post
To further clarify the need for higher burst and to justify it;

Back in the olden days, when people like me played pre-nerf.

While I agree that the damage was disgustingly high, and later I accept that some of the nerf's were necessary not ALL of the nerf's were (and that includes unforseen nerfs due to mechanical changes such as relics, armor sets, etc)

The justification:

One thing all operatives/smugs can agree on was energy management; The only exception to this rule are scrappers and concealments; We lived and died by our Burst damage and energy management; At this time energy management was incredibly harsh for concealments and scrappers.

What I would suggest is a trade with Bioware and our sister specs; Give lethality and healers the energy management currently in the system, but revert concealment/scrapper energy systems back to 1.2 standards while at the same time giving us our Burst damage back which we can utilize for survivability based on how well we manage our energy.

That is a check in place of our burst damage; Higher energy consumption for the sake of higher burst and quicker kills in the short term. The longer the fight is, the worse the spec becomes as it runs out of energy, or cannot re-stealth to escape.

Just my thoughts, and that's essentially what made this spec balanced, was the energy consumption issues that all 3 specs suffered from, Concealment used more energy than any other spec did in the short term.... I have 1 damage rotation that I talked about previously in other threads, where I can completely deplete my energy in 1 rotation EVEN WITH the new energy system. But the catch is... give us our 9 sec CD back on Backstab, because that was the bread and butter skill for concealments/scrappers when we couldn't use Hidden Strike out of stealth. And no we never needed the ability to use Hidden Strike out of stealth to compete.
While sounds fine and dandy for regs, i still don't see how this would make us viable for ranked arenas, or how it would help overcome the sterotype of concealment/scrapper being non progression raiding material.
Current burst is crap yes, but when ever you see a DPS operative in an arena, he cannot even get this crap burst off, because he dead with second after popping out of stealth.
2.0 made concealment/scrapper raid viable on melee DPS position (although it still needs a kick *** player to pull it off), but still in prolonged fight you really need to have perfect rotation not to end in the energy trap. I doubt a burst buff at the cost energy management would help much there.

Tattum's Avatar


Tattum
12.11.2013 , 05:28 PM | #19
not sure if this has been discussed only thousand times or milion times but have you also noticed that we are the one and only class that has no way how to knock BACK the enemy ? ...

just saying..
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
BW doesn't listen to their community at all and they pretty much never interact with the community on their forums...

Boozsha's Avatar


Boozsha
12.11.2013 , 07:28 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Tattum View Post
not sure if this has been discussed only thousand times or milion times but have you also noticed that we are the one and only class that has no way how to knock BACK the enemy ? ...

just saying..
I don't think Vanguards/ Powertechs have a knockback.