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new PvE parsing idea for 2.5...


Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.04.2013 , 04:35 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by emania View Post
Personally i think it should be up to the player whether to use a 1 million or 1.5 million health dummy.
I did a parse earlier where i killed the dummy in under 5 mins with 1 million hp and don't mind going for 7 mins but others may very well feel different. already some parses go into 7 mins.
i cant see a single parse in the top 40 parses that go into 7 mins. in fact, and i haven't actually counted, but i'll say that 90% + of them don't pass the 5:30 mark. the longer you go on, typically, the more RNG goes against you. it's like playing cards in vegas, with very few exceptions. your best dps will come within the first million typically just before the 5 min mark, which is where the 1 mil mark lands nicely. having too many choices/sub-categories in a leaderboard ruins the point of it.
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SUOMY - Madness Assassin

greg_biochem's Avatar


greg_biochem
12.04.2013 , 04:41 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Transmet View Post
As stated before, 1.5 is too much. The parse would end up being around 7 mins, which is a) redundant in terms of cds. It would add no value and parses would be less.
b) boring
Right... but you mentioned a switch might be made when the next tier of gear comes out. Did you expect the parsing to get that much less "redundant" and "boring" with new gear?

Certainly, there will be individuals capable of hitting 4k DPS in current gear - which would be just over 4 minutes on the 1mil dummy. With newer tiers of gear, the fight time would probably dip below 4 minutes, virtually necessitating a switch to the 1.5mil dummy modifier.

After 78 gear came out, the thread was archived. Now that there are new dummy modifiers, I believe the intent was to archive the current leaderboard. And with a switch between 1mil and 1.5mil modifiers, there could be yet another thread reset... idk, perhaps I'm the only one that cares about leaderboard continuity.

Quote: Originally Posted by emania View Post
Personally i think it should be up to the player whether to use a 1 million or 1.5 million health dummy.
I did a parse earlier where i killed the dummy in under 5 mins with 1 million hp and don't mind going for 7 mins but others may very well feel different. already some parses go into 7 mins.
If both modifiers were allowed, the highest parses would come from dummies with 1mil HP. There's less time between the opening burst and the under 30% execute phase, and parses with lucky overall crit% would be more common over the shorter duration.
Server: The Ebon Hawk
Red'october - Gunslinger

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
12.04.2013 , 04:55 PM | #13
so u can use two mods? 1 mil and armor?

emania's Avatar


emania
12.04.2013 , 05:09 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Transmet View Post
i cant see a single parse in the top 40 parses that go into 7 mins. in fact, and i haven't actually counted, but i'll say that 90% + of them don't pass the 5:30 mark. the longer you go on, typically, the more RNG goes against you. it's like playing cards in vegas, with very few exceptions. your best dps will come within the first million typically just before the 5 min mark, which is where the 1 mil mark lands nicely. having too many choices/sub-categories in a leaderboard ruins the point of it.
This is true of classes who have a large opener and then fall off but not all classes function that way. Even if they did allowing someone to parse for a longer length is in no way a trick or cheat, If you want people to parse on the dummy for 1 million hp there is no reason you shouldn't accept parses for 1.5 million hp. I also think there will be 1 or 2 classes who parse higher with the 1.5 million mainly df and watchmen.

Also there would be no need for a new section it could just be added to the posting
e.g.
Dps Name - Dps - spec -1/1.5 mill

idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
12.04.2013 , 09:07 PM | #15
I like the idea for sure, but it needs to be armor debuff & 1.5m. Most of the people who will be parsing the serious numbers are going to be killing the 1m dummy before five minutes.

Again, though, I like the idea. It removes the necessity of trimming, it removes the armor debuff differences, it allows for <30% extra damage, and most importantly it makes parse hacking a lot more difficult. You can't edit the log to give numbers that you didn't hit, because the dummy has a specific amount of health. Additionally, there's no need to worry about other players debuffing the target with the armor debuff - it's already there.
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Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.05.2013 , 12:55 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by greg_biochem View Post
Right... but you mentioned a switch might be made when the next tier of gear comes out. Did you expect the parsing to get that much less "redundant" and "boring" with new gear?

Certainly, there will be individuals capable of hitting 4k DPS in current gear - which would be just over 4 minutes on the 1mil dummy. With newer tiers of gear, the fight time would probably dip below 4 minutes, virtually necessitating a switch to the 1.5mil dummy modifier.

After 78 gear came out, the thread was archived. Now that there are new dummy modifiers, I believe the intent was to archive the current leaderboard. And with a switch between 1mil and 1.5mil modifiers, there could be yet another thread reset... idk, perhaps I'm the only one that cares about leaderboard continuity.



If both modifiers were allowed, the highest parses would come from dummies with 1mil HP. There's less time between the opening burst and the under 30% execute phase, and parses with lucky overall crit% would be more common over the shorter duration.
yes, we are in agreement....im not sure what counter point you're trying to make here. When the next tier comes out, switch to 1.5 million for an accurate parse. It would be le redundant because of the increase of damage and work out to nearly the same time....
NOIRE - Concealment Operative

SUOMY - Madness Assassin

Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.05.2013 , 12:56 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by emania View Post
This is true of classes who have a large opener and then fall off but not all classes function that way. Even if they did allowing someone to parse for a longer length is in no way a trick or cheat, If you want people to parse on the dummy for 1 million hp there is no reason you shouldn't accept parses for 1.5 million hp. I also think there will be 1 or 2 classes who parse higher with the 1.5 million mainly df and watchmen.

Also there would be no need for a new section it could just be added to the posting
e.g.
Dps Name - Dps - spec -1/1.5 mill
Of course there would be a need for one, time....it's a totally different criteria...
NOIRE - Concealment Operative

SUOMY - Madness Assassin

Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
12.05.2013 , 12:58 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
I like the idea for sure, but it needs to be armor debuff & 1.5m. Most of the people who will be parsing the serious numbers are going to be killing the 1m dummy before five minutes.

Again, though, I like the idea. It removes the necessity of trimming, it removes the armor debuff differences, it allows for <30% extra damage, and most importantly it makes parse hacking a lot more difficult. You can't edit the log to give numbers that you didn't hit, because the dummy has a specific amount of health. Additionally, there's no need to worry about other players debuffing the target with the armor debuff - it's already there.
Yes, the idea is to eliminate the 5 minute criteria...and go for faster times. If the overall intention of parsing is to have an atypical standard which is 100% uptime and yet make it comparable to actual ops engagements, then timing the dps burn to 0 is the most efficient way; much moreso than standing there for 5 mins swinging away.
NOIRE - Concealment Operative

SUOMY - Madness Assassin

greg_biochem's Avatar


greg_biochem
12.05.2013 , 01:34 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Transmet View Post
yes, we are in agreement....im not sure what counter point you're trying to make here. When the next tier comes out, switch to 1.5 million for an accurate parse. It would be le redundant because of the increase of damage and work out to nearly the same time....
I was arguing for the use of 1.5mil HP dummy parses to start with, instead of switching to them later.

I think parses barely over 4 minutes are ridiculously short, but I realize that's a subjective opinion and that most people don't think it gets too ridiculous until parses actually go under 4 minutes (next tier). Yes, a parse on the 1.5mil dummy would be 6.5 - 7 minutes long, but I doubt the next tier of gear would bring that down much below 6 minutes...

However, so many people have uploaded parses against the 1mil HP dummy now, it seems the decision has already been made.
Server: The Ebon Hawk
Red'october - Gunslinger

Ardarell_Solo's Avatar


Ardarell_Solo
12.06.2013 , 06:28 PM | #20
I know this is not relevant to many fellow parsing fanatics, but most boss fights (at least the interesting ones ;-) are longer than 5 mins...
El'ethon (Sentinel) | Rickmyron (Gunslinger) | Alreegan (Sage)
Craeg (Scoundrel) | Dacs (Commando) | Vayus (Guardian)
<Taking the Jawas to Alderaan>
T3-M4