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SWTOR GSF Flight Stick Compatibility

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
SWTOR GSF Flight Stick Compatibility

Verain's Avatar


Verain
10.12.2014 , 06:28 PM | #91
Sadly, that option would also not work.


You see, without the "table" that the reticule slides on, you have NO WAY to tell the difference between partial deflection (turn at 70% of turning rate) and max deflection (turn at full turning rate). The "table" is just there to emulate the joystick, on which it is EASY to do this.

This problem is a bit hard to explain, but pretty easy to picture. An FPS is pretty well suited to a mouse control, I think we all agree- you move your mouse slow, your character turns slow. Move it fast, you turn fast. The amount of physical movement required to spin around twice in one direction is pretty minor, and it happens almost instantly. What makes this work is the tracking maps the mouse precisely. I'm sure no one is under the delusion that the rotation rate in an FPS is even remotely realistic- it's ludicrous for cyborg warriors, let alone the grizzled zombie survivor that a lot of games portray. Realistic turning rates happen in games with gamepad control, such as Perfect Dark or Halo, and in those games the turn rate can actually seem stifling to those used to the angular teleportation of Quake and beyond.

GSF models ships with finite turning rates. A scout can turn very quickly, but often wants to turn very gradually. The correct- really, the only- way to model this is with a joystick with a solid analog range. Max stick down gives you maximum pitch up, edge the stick right and get a small yaw to the right. GSF doesn't have this, so it EMULATES it with the "table" that your reticule lives on. Put that reticule partway up and you get partial pitch up, etc.


So you COULD do what you ask, but you wouldn't lock the RETICULE- you'd see a little crosshair appear in the middle, and the reticule would change shape (maybe to just the circle), allowing you to continue steering the ship whilst moving the reticule and firing direct forward for 0 deflection shots.



If you did lock the reticule, you'd have NO WAY of discerning between max and partial deflections, OR you'd have no way of turning a solid circle, like a loop, OR you'd have no way to find center. You get the first input problem by making any mouse movement correspond to max, and any stationary mouse movement correspond to nothing. You get the second input problem by making any mouse movement correspond to a similar amount of ship movement, up to a point. But unlike games where facing is a technicality from a physical perspective (every FPS), you'd rapidly run into an issue in GSF where you are turning at your max rate, and your mouse is moving at a reasonable pace (after all, you need to distinguish between full turn and partial, right?), so you run out of space, have to lift and replace mouse, etc. The final input problem is generated if you solve GSF the way it has been, but make the reticule invisible- now it's acting like GSF, but you can't see it.


So you still need the steering reticule, you could just lock firing to center. That would be a great feature, but it would definitely change how weapons are valued- for instance, you'd definitely not do that with BLC, continuing to use the standard method, but you unquestionably would do it with quads. Would you do it with laser cannon? Light laser cannon? These wouldn't really benefit as much from it as quads or heavies, but they would benefit pretty often nonetheless, putting them in a rough middle ground- essentially, you would be buffing some lasers around them.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Gavin_Kelvar's Avatar


Gavin_Kelvar
10.12.2014 , 07:21 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post

So you still need the steering reticule, you could just lock firing to center.
This is basically what I meant, my bad if I didn't articulate that very well. And thank you for the detailed explanation! It really helped me visualize why GSF controls present such a challenge from the dev side to change.

Quote:
That would be a great feature, but it would definitely change how weapons are valued- for instance, you'd definitely not do that with BLC, continuing to use the standard method, but you unquestionably would do it with quads. Would you do it with laser cannon? Light laser cannon? These wouldn't really benefit as much from it as quads or heavies, but they would benefit pretty often nonetheless, putting them in a rough middle ground- essentially, you would be buffing some lasers around them.
No doubt it would buff some weapons. But IMO that wouldn't be entirely bad since the weapons getting buffed are some of the best blasters available to strike fighters making it an indirect buff to them as welll (with bombers and GS it might be debatable since their even slower turn rate might make taking deflection shots more practical than locking blaster firing to center). It might also help reduce the supremacy of BLCs by making it more easy to line up a shot with high tracking penalty blasters in situations (such as around a sat) that currently heavily favor BLCs. So it might also make other options like LLC more appealing on ships that have access to both LLC and BLC.

Personally I think the ideal would be making it a toggle button so you could more easily switch between modes depending on the starfighter you were taking out but I recognize that might not be possible.
Aodhn Guilhem
Republic Strike Fighter Pilot
Jedi Covenant

malffurion's Avatar


malffurion
12.14.2014 , 02:15 PM | #93
i would like this as well for my Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X Flight Stick

Mallorik's Avatar


Mallorik
12.16.2014 , 04:50 PM | #94
This thread makes me sad. GSF was such a good idea, and like the rest of the game ruined by small minded devs. I was almost as excited about GSF as I was when I heard about swtor being made, then I found out they didn't have controller/js suppor t

Who would have thought that a Flight game made for people who don't like flight games would flop? Now its stuck in a death spiral not making enough money for updates to keep current players happy or enough money to hire two retarded monkeys to code controller support.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
12.16.2014 , 11:44 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Mallorik View Post
This thread makes me sad. GSF was such a good idea
GSF isn't an idea, it's a game. And a good one.

Quote:
and like the rest of the game ruined by small minded devs. I was almost as excited about GSF as I was when I heard about swtor being made, then I found out they didn't have controller/js suppor t
It's not just "controller support".

Here's why it's a big deal:

1)- Retooling and rebalancing the the weapons would occur. The existing weapons are all balanced around the gimbaled setup.
2)- The flight input would be very different on the software side of things.
3)- Joysticks would have to be purchased, coded for, tested and retested.
4)- A UI to configure the joysticks would have to be written and incorporated in the main game.
5)- How well does the engine support joysticks? Who knows? It could require a whole extension.
6)- The testing load would increase permanently to support the new joysticks.
7)- The code load would increase permanently to support the new joysticks.

A lot of effort for joysticks that would be used in one portion of GSF, by a small sample of the population, who already dominate everyone else.

Quote: Originally Posted by malffurion View Post
i would like this as well for my Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X Flight Stick
Of course, and I'd love to use my X-55. But for all the reasons above, it's not in the cards at this time. And guess what? If we could use our Hotas setup, we'd have a really big control advantage over the rest of everyone. Likely, this is not the absolute best possible outcome.


Quote:
Who would have thought that a Flight game made for people who don't like flight games would flop?
A game that reuses assets of an existing game really can't "flop", and GSF has plenty of loyal players and frequent pops.

Quote:
Now its stuck in a death spiral not making enough money for updates to keep current players happy or enough money to hire two retarded monkeys to code controller support.
It would take a lot more effort than that to redesign the game, rebalance the weapons, include the hardware support, offer customization, test with a bunch of hotas and sticks, etc. It's a pretty huge effort.

Oh, and if you think it's not? If it's simple because you can code up a demo program? No. Just no. That's not how it works.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Ymris's Avatar


Ymris
12.17.2014 , 08:50 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Mallorik View Post
This thread makes me sad. GSF was such a good idea, and like the rest of the game ruined by small minded devs. I was almost as excited about GSF as I was when I heard about swtor being made, then I found out they didn't have controller/js suppor t

Who would have thought that a Flight game made for people who don't like flight games would flop? Now its stuck in a death spiral not making enough money for updates to keep current players happy or enough money to hire two retarded monkeys to code controller support.
You necro'ing this thread and then telling demoralizing untruths on our forums makes me sad. Shoo!

Edit: To the next person who wants to necro this thread: read a page or two of it. I suspect what you want to say has already been said here. Now shoo!
Harbinger [US West Coast]: Strx
The Ebon Hawk [US East Coast]: Strx

Tensoring straight to hell!

Verain's Avatar


Verain
12.17.2014 , 10:35 AM | #97
In fairness, he wasn't the original necromancer. Also, it can be frustrating to want to post about a topic that has been talked about a lot. You either contribute to a cloud of spam threads, or you necro. I'm pretty sure he picked the first post about the topic on page 1 or page 2, and the other guy who actually necroed it probably landed from a google search.


I think the overall limitation is with forum software. The timeline of a current thread might be:

======x

and the timeline of a thread like this might be:

===-=----------------=----------------------------=x

And there's no way to see that when you look at it on the front page, or go straight to the action (you can usually go to the last post, and then scroll up to see the first post that IS NOT from a year ago or whatever, but that should be visible and automated). You'd like a link to go to the equals signs (activity start points), as they are virtual threads on the same topic, kept more organized. Or they would be, if the software could display that fact.


Whatever!
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Mallorik's Avatar


Mallorik
12.18.2014 , 10:58 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by Ymris View Post
You necro'ing this thread and then telling demoralizing untruths on our forums makes me sad. Shoo!

Edit: To the next person who wants to necro this thread: read a page or two of it. I suspect what you want to say has already been said here. Now shoo!
It was on the front page when I posted Cleatus. Im glad you and the other 4 people who are still playing gsf think its such an amazing game, but I wont stop pointing out that they screwed this up until they fix it.

Mallorik's Avatar


Mallorik
12.18.2014 , 11:05 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
In fairness, he wasn't the original necromancer. Also, it can be frustrating to want to post about a topic that has been talked about a lot. You either contribute to a cloud of spam threads, or you necro. I'm pretty sure he picked the first post about the topic on page 1 or page 2, and the other guy who actually necroed it probably landed from a google search.


I think the overall limitation is with forum software. The timeline of a current thread might be:

======x

and the timeline of a thread like this might be:

===-=----------------=----------------------------=x

And there's no way to see that when you look at it on the front page, or go straight to the action (you can usually go to the last post, and then scroll up to see the first post that IS NOT from a year ago or whatever, but that should be visible and automated). You'd like a link to go to the equals signs (activity start points), as they are virtual threads on the same topic, kept more organized. Or they would be, if the software could display that fact.


Whatever!
It was on the front page, I was bored waiting for a gf group and thought id wander into these forums because I hadn't bothered to see what was going on in gsf for 6 months since their is usually nothing going on in gsf and since I was one of the first people to start riding bioware about joysticks since the day they announced gsf I have a big interest in that subject.