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SW quest "The plan is working!" - a couple of questions

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
SW quest "The plan is working!" - a couple of questions

Trollokdamus's Avatar


Trollokdamus
11.20.2013 , 08:17 AM | #1
Hi there.
I'm currently in the process of completing this quest, but struggling to decide the right way through it for my SW. So i have two questions about it and hope that the answers will help me make my mind.

1. If i understand it right, the "LS" option is to convince Uldin that you come in peace, so he walks away and you face Zylixx alone. At least that is the only option you get LS points for. But in the dialogue following the Zylixx's defeat, your only options are either to finish Zylixx off, or to try to convince him that the Jedi are weak and the Dark Side is his best bet, leaving him broken and exposed to it. So, judging by the outcome, everything said to Uldin was just a clever manipulation to make him go away. But if so, why do you get LS points for it? And why is this option considered "LS" at all?

Now about the "DS" option. You may either outright attack the Jedi or play on Zylixx's feelings, goad him, thus making the Jedi attack you. No matter what you choose, you get DS points for that. But when you defeat the Jedi (Zylixx is killed, Uldin yields), you have an option to spare Uldin and let him convey your message to Nomen Karr. You even get LS points for that. This is the only possible "good" outcome of the conflict between you and the Jedi. So again, why is this option considered "DS" in the first place?

I personally feel that something is very wrong here. The options are mixed in a very weird and illogical way.

2. This question is mostly to those who let Zylixx, broken and exposed to the Dark Side, live. Did you ever see him again in the course of the storyline? It would be cool if at some point you would encounter him fully converted and following the Sith ways.

DarthStinson's Avatar


DarthStinson
11.20.2013 , 08:50 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
Hi there.
I'm currently in the process of completing this quest, but struggling to decide the right way through it for my SW. So i have two questions about it and hope that the answers will help me make my mind.

1. If i understand it right, the "LS" option is to convince Uldin that you come in peace, so he walks away and you face Zylixx alone. At least that is the only option you get LS points for. But in the dialogue following the Zylixx's defeat, your only options are either to finish Zylixx off, or to try to convince him that the Jedi are weak and the Dark Side is his best bet, leaving him broken and exposed to it. So, judging by the outcome, everything said to Uldin was just a clever manipulation to make him go away. But if so, why do you get LS points for it? And why is this option considered "LS" at all?

Now about the "DS" option. You may either outright attack the Jedi or play on Zylixx's feelings, goad him, thus making the Jedi attack you. No matter what you choose, you get DS points for that. But when you defeat the Jedi (Zylixx is killed, Uldin yields), you have an option to spare Uldin and let him convey your message to Nomen Karr. You even get LS points for that. This is the only possible "good" outcome of the conflict between you and the Jedi. So again, why is this option considered "DS" in the first place?

I personally feel that something is very wrong here. The options are mixed in a very weird and illogical way.

2. This question is mostly to those who let Zylixx, broken and exposed to the Dark Side, live. Did you ever see him again in the course of the storyline? It would be cool if at some point you would encounter him fully converted and following the Sith ways.
I've completed 3 SW playthroughs (1 light, 1 dark, 1 semi-neutral) and I can't recall Zylixx ever making a reappearance, either in-person or as a reference. I'll check the cut-scenes I recorded to verify (I doubt he would be referenced outside of the SW storyline.)

LS Choice: I think the intent with the "LS" choice is to make both Jedi step away from battle. Zylixx clearly has some issues brewing, so he opts to press the attack rather than walk away as Uldin does. Once the SW defeats him, he/she offers the best advice that they can give (a "good" intent IMO) which is that the Jedi way is not the best path for Zylixx. The Dark Side is much more suited for his disposition and he can free himself from the shackles of the stifling Jedi code. I feel like it's a relatively "Light Side" thing to do in that my SW never viewed the Dark Side as an evil entity in and of itself. It's fueled by powerful emotions rather than evil thoughts or actions, so helping Zylixx understand that is actually encouraging him to accept who he truly is. However, I can't remember what Uldin does after he leaves. Does he relay your message to Nomen Karr/Jaesa? I want to say that Nomen mentions receiving news from Uldin in your next interaction (similar to the "LS" option at the end of the initial "DS" choice.) But without having access to the videos at the moment, I can't double-check. *shrugs*

DS Choice: Even though I tend to play "good" characters, I've really come to enjoy the manipulation that Sith employ. In this choice, you goad Zylixx with the intention of getting him to and attack you (and violate his Jedi teachings). Essentially, manipulating him into abandoning his beliefs as opposed to convincing him that they're wrong (an "evil" intent). I think the difference here from the "LS" option is that your intent was to manipulate/destroy (DS) rather than rationalize/free (LS).

Anyone else have thoughts?
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Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
11.21.2013 , 05:16 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
Now about the "DS" option. You may either outright attack the Jedi or play on Zylixx's feelings, goad him, thus making the Jedi attack you. No matter what you choose, you get DS points for that. But when you defeat the Jedi (Zylixx is killed, Uldin yields), you have an option to spare Uldin and let him convey your message to Nomen Karr. You even get LS points for that. This is the only possible "good" outcome of the conflict between you and the Jedi. So again, why is this option considered "DS" in the first place?
Game mechanics. I agree that it's a bit bizarre to recieve dark side points for going that path, especially considering that the deciding point is telling him "keep thinking like that and you'll fall to the dark side before you know it" and then countering his flawed justification for wanting to murder you with reason and logic. But because the game doesn't arbitrarily decide to let you beat him down to one health afterwards and going this route means Zylixx dies, it becomes the evil choice because... I don't know. Death is bad, I guess.

Unfortunately this is just something tor does quite a lot (sparing people who'll in all likelyhood go on to cause more death and suffering, or turning people over to the Empire as prisoners despite the high probability they'll be extensively tortured for information/fun/etc being a 'light' choice is something that happens frustratingly often as well), and I've grown to just not care what the game tells me is a light or dark decision. If only I could disable the entire screen flashing blue or red when I pick one -_-

Trollokdamus's Avatar


Trollokdamus
11.22.2013 , 04:48 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthStinson View Post
LS Choice: I think the intent with the "LS" choice is to make both Jedi step away from battle. Zylixx clearly has some issues brewing, so he opts to press the attack rather than walk away as Uldin does. Once the SW defeats him, he/she offers the best advice that they can give (a "good" intent IMO) which is that the Jedi way is not the best path for Zylixx. The Dark Side is much more suited for his disposition and he can free himself from the shackles of the stifling Jedi code. I feel like it's a relatively "Light Side" thing to do in that my SW never viewed the Dark Side as an evil entity in and of itself. It's fueled by powerful emotions rather than evil thoughts or actions, so helping Zylixx understand that is actually encouraging him to accept who he truly is.
Thing is, if you play a LS Sith, your character has outright rejected the DS and is actually a LS follower, even though unbound to the Jedi Code (Tatooine ritual). I don't feel that such a person would think of going DS as a solution for anyone, even a guy like Zylixx. So what SW should have done imo is either advice Zylixx to go and talk with the Jedi Masters, or explain to him that emotions are fine and he doesn't have to live strictly by the Jedi Code to remain a LS follower. Instead, in the first dialogue option SW tries to set Zylixx up against the Jedi, to make him get even with Ulden, or boasts how strong he is. And in the second dialogue option, when Zylixx wonders if DS is really such powerfull, SW either tries to lure him to it, let him wonder (which would have the same outcome), or just kills him.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthStinson View Post
DS Choice: Even though I tend to play "good" characters, I've really come to enjoy the manipulation that Sith employ. In this choice, you goad Zylixx with the intention of getting him to and attack you (and violate his Jedi teachings). Essentially, manipulating him into abandoning his beliefs as opposed to convincing him that they're wrong (an "evil" intent). I think the difference here from the "LS" option is that your intent was to manipulate/destroy (DS) rather than rationalize/free (LS).
True, and it makes it look even more strange that the only real LS outcome comes after such a DS beginning.